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A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

kickscondor.com

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Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#51

Post by etatoby »

jacobolus wrote: post #3

This post doesn’t really explain what is so great about iPads for small children, and as far as I can tell doesn’t link to much external explanation about it. Maybe the author had some previous posts explaining this that regular blog readers know about as context? Is there some report [anecdotal, peer-reviewed, whatever] comparing kids’ trying to learn using an iPad vs. physical materials? What specific ideas or subj…

I will add another couple of points.

In kindergarten (many decades ago) sometimes we were given individual assignments, such as sticking figures in the right place, coloring things, basic counting... But other times we were forced to interact with our peers and "play together."

As someone who has always struggled to interact with other people, and who had not met any other kids before/except in kindergarten, I think those times were very formative. Hard, but formative.

I still struggle with people as an adult, but I think I would be worse off had I spent that time in front of a screen, whether touch or not, instead of interacting with other kids, including hard times like being excluded from the group with they best toys and stuff like that.

Also, I was using a keyboard (Model M!) as young as 3 years old, and the Microsoft Mouse not much older. I remember watching my dad add the mouse ISA card inside the computer, and learning to use three 5" floppies in the right order: first the DOS one, then the mouse driver one, type MOUSE.COM or something similar, then the Windows 1.0 floppy, and finally I could use Paint or Othello :-)

I think early computers increased my ability for concentration. That's interesting, considering modern devices are said to decrease it.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#52

Post by vortico »

lostgame wrote: post #29
vortico wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the mentality that touch = consume and type = produce. The efficiency and imtimacy of user interaction of keyboards is simply unmatched with other competing input devices. Open-ness of platforms is secondary.

Bluetooth keyboard works great for me.

A bluetooth keyboard is a keyboard, I'm not saying it isn't.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#53

Post by eric_bullington »

athenot wrote: post #42
kickscondor wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cover this a bit in my reply to Eli. https://www.kickscondor.com/2018/08/28/caution-chromebooks/ I agree that there should be a limit (and have practiced this in my classes) but there are some incredible uses of touchscreens that I can't ignore.

What kind of incredible uses? I'm genuinely curious as I've delayed introducing tablets and computers to my kids until they can do something creative with them.

Don't know if you're familiar with the Dragonbox apps (original for algebra and Dragonbox Elements for geometry). Those are incredible learning experiences that would not be possible on paper. Even a desktop w/mouse for those apps wouldn't be ideal, whereas a tablet or mobile phone is perfect.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#54

Post by vortico »

throwawayjava wrote: post #34
vortico wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the mentality that touch = consume and type = produce. The efficiency and imtimacy of user interaction of keyboards is simply unmatched with other competing input devices. Open-ness of platforms is secondary.

Conjecture: this is a tech-centric viewpoint. I have quite a few lawyer and doctor friends who use tablets first (usually with a BT keyboard) and only break out the computer when they need it for some very particular reason. If you don't need root on a beefy machine and/or Windows-specific software, then a modern tablet with a bluetooth keyboard gives you more than enough compute and all the applications you need to…

It's an every-field-centric viewpoint. Every field that creates something is more efficient with a keyboard. You even just supported this point yourself.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#55

Post by lostgame »

throwawayjava wrote: post #41
lostgame wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am getting tired of hearing that the iPad is 'not for producers.' I was way up there with you right up until I wrote the majority of my upcoming solo hip-hop record in Garageband with Audio Units on my iPad mini, with an AKAI MDP32 as my external MIDI device and an Apogee sound card for insane-quality audio. Then, due to the amazing workflow, I was able to take those tracks into Logic Pro and refine the hell of out…

> It's like you haven't even used it, or actually have no use case to use it for creation. FWIW iPads and android tablets tend to not work for most software development tasks.The "iPads aren't for producers" mentality might be more of a "iPads aren't for Software producers (and some types of engineers)"

producer ≠ developer.

I'm a producer. I produce short film and music, amongst others.

I'm also a developer. I use xCode, Dreamweaver, and Unity to develop applications and games.

Developing - that's what computers are still for. And devs know that.

Developing on-device will come, in time. I, for one, don't have a problem with needing an extra dev machine, specifically for the purpose. I understand this represents a financial burden for some, especially considering the cost of a new MacBook. I'm fortunate enough to have had a Mac by my side since I was 14, and I'm 29 now, which means more than half my life. So for me, already a Mac user, the iOS dev ecosystem was actually a blessing. I understand, however, I am obviously an outlier in that set of data.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#56

Post by lostgame »

compostable wrote: post #35
lostgame wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google docs is for iOS, as well? Not sure how this is an advantage. And so many people here seem to be forgetting that a bluetooth keyboard is inexpensive and incredibly viable.

It's one more thing to lug around, keep charged, etc.

I use a bluetooth keyboard case. I simply charge it with my iPad. It stays attached.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#57

Post by throwawayjava »

lostgame wrote: post #55
throwawayjava wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like you haven't even used it, or actually have no use case to use it for creation. FWIW iPads and android tablets tend to not work for most software development tasks.The "iPads aren't for producers" mentality might be more of a "iPads aren't for Software producers (and some types of engineers)"

producer ≠ developer. I'm a producer. I produce short film and music, amongst others. I'm also a developer. I use xCode, Dreamweaver, and Unity to develop applications and games. Developing - that's what computers are still for. And devs know that. Developing on-device will come, in time. I, for one, don't have a problem with needing an extra dev machine, specifically for the purpose. I understand this represents a f…

> producer ≠ developer.

I agree; in fact, that was my whole point :)

> Developing on-device will come, in time.

We'll see what Moore and his progenitors think. Until software is the only bottleneck, there will definitely always be lower-tier, cheaper options for the N>50% of the population that doesn't need the compute/batter life/etc. that's necessary for a mobile dev machine. My WAG is that we're still a few generations (as in people generations, not tech generations) from getting there. If we ever get there at all.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#58

Post by Terretta »

throwawayjava wrote: post #41
lostgame wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am getting tired of hearing that the iPad is 'not for producers.' I was way up there with you right up until I wrote the majority of my upcoming solo hip-hop record in Garageband with Audio Units on my iPad mini, with an AKAI MDP32 as my external MIDI device and an Apogee sound card for insane-quality audio. Then, due to the amazing workflow, I was able to take those tracks into Logic Pro and refine the hell of out…

> It's like you haven't even used it, or actually have no use case to use it for creation. FWIW iPads and android tablets tend to not work for most software development tasks.The "iPads aren't for producers" mentality might be more of a "iPads aren't for Software producers (and some types of engineers)"

> FWIW iPads and android tablets tend to not work for most software development tasks.

It's certainly not for local Windows application development, but it's great for 21st century architectures (infra as code), containerized apps, or any other CI/CD-able scenario.

With an iPad Pro, Apple's Smart Keyboard, and the lovely Working Copy + Textastic, and blink.sh Mosh/SSH client, together with a decent CI/CD (commit code, deploy to dev) pipeline in place, you're good.

See also Buffer, GoCodeEditor, Koder, etc. Several of these happen to be 50% off atm.

Don't forget you can remote desktop to GUI things too, from Citrix to RDP.

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#59

Post by [deleted] »

derefr wrote: post #45
paganel wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why should kids in kidnergarten use computer-like devices? What are the benefits? Are there any benefits?

This is a mindset that assumes kids are using computers to learn how to use computers. Kids in kindergarten can actually use tablets, to learn other stuff. Any stuff. They can indulge their own interests, in a way that's nearly impossible in any other medium without assistance of someone older than them. A tablet is the first cut of the way children use the Holodeck in Star Trek. You can't (usually) just ask for what…

[deleted]

Re: A Kindergartener’s Best Computer Is About to Die

#60

Post by mcphage »

tylerchilds wrote: post #9

What about plugging a mouse into the Chromebooks? I distinctly remember being in kindergarten and using a mouse as my pointer input. I played Treasure Mountain! and some other educational games. Kids are pretty capable and adept at picking up new things. We should be pushing forward with tech literacy while they're still young and not afraid of breaking technology. Touch screens are great because they provided a very…

Mice—and to a lesser extent, Chromebooks—need to be sitting on a large, hard, flat surface. iPad minis have no such requirement. A kid can use it sitting in a chair, lying on their back, or any other position they feel like.
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