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Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

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Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#301

Post by kjs3 »

achoped wrote: post #85
jtokoph wrote: post #7

> UPDATE: Monday, shortly after publication and broadcast of this story by Kaiser Health News and NPR, St. David’s said it was now willing to accept $782.29 to resolve the $108,951 balance because Drew Calver qualifies for its “financial assistance discount.” Sounds all fine and dandy until you realize that these charges will just be made up for by people that aren't able to get NPR to publish a story about them.

Not always. My mom had a quadruple bypass about 6 years ago during a gap year where she stopped working but didn't have Medicare yet. Unlucky. I think she was billed for around $180k. She told them "I'm on Social Security for $1000/mo, I'll pay you $50/mo". It was basically that or sending it to collections and never getting a dime from a retiree. So they accepted and told her a "non-profit" paid for the doctor's por…

> You'll get harassed for a little over a year. Debt older > than a year is almost never pursued by collections agencies.

Not sure why you'd think that. I still get collections letters for debt that I paid off years, sometimes decades ago. There's a whole ecosystem of slimy bottomfeeders that buy old lists and send out demand letters hoping one-in-a-hundred is intimidated enough to pay them to go away.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#302

Post by kjs3 »

sturgill wrote: post #254
rdtsc wrote: post #52

> St. David’s HealthCare defended its handling of Calver’s bill and sought to blame the school district and Aetna for offering such a narrow network. So while dying of a heart attack he should have been negotiating with the ambulance driver, the paramedics, the nurses, each intern and doctor to make sure they are "in-network". > St. David’s said it was now willing to accept $782.29 to resolve the $108,951 balance bec…

I once got cut by a skate playing hockey. Showed up at the hospital pulsing blood from my leg. My first question to them, “Do you take X insurance?” Only after they assured me that my insurance would be accepted did I drag my bloody leg into the care room. Turns out the doctor that the hospital assigned to me did _not_ take my insurance. I got billed the full amount, yelled very loudly at lots of people, and when I “…

[dead]

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#303

Post by noelsusman »

antisthenes wrote: post #165
FireBeyond wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you realize that the hospital was charging $19,000 for a stent that cost $1,500, you realize that painting Calver as someone who is going to cost us all money is misdirected anger. And, to be clear, they charged $19,000 for the stent, not "stent plus theater time to place it plus surgeon, anesthesiology, OR nurses", of course not. Those are all absolutely billed separately.

Hospitals should be legally mandated to accept replacement of materials in lieu of payment. If I can source the same stents for cheaper than the hospital bills me, they should be required to erase them from the bill and accept them as material replacement. It's not as if medical supplies are unavailable to the end consumer. https://www.esutures.com/product/0-in-date/41-boston-scienti... Here are the stents available…

Hospitals generally operate on Also, people like you who force hospitals to chase you down to pay a bill are part of the reason why it's so expensive in the first place.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#304

Post by noelsusman »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #94
treyfitty wrote: post #68

My father had a heart attack 4 months ago, and he’s been in and out of the ICU for 3 of those months. Everyone likes to think “oh, I’m insured. I’ll be fine.” But let me tell you, you won’t be fine. 3 months of ICU at Robert Wood Johnson was billed for $4Mn. BCBS-NJ only paid out $750k. The headache begins there- from a personal financial standpoint, and Tri-party incentive standpoint. Ignoring the difference of $3.2…

Health insurance companies' profit margins are restricted by law, whereas Robert Wood Johnson and its executives and doctors profit margins are not restricted. If anyone is on the patient's side from a cost perspective, it's insurance, and the ones benefiting from higher pricing and unnecessary procedures are the providers.

RWJ is a non-profit.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#305

Post by noelsusman »

quickben wrote: post #3

All this is a bit surreal (Canadian here), but it prompts the question: why won't people sue in a class action to refund money they gave to the insurance in the first place? I realize it's a complex subject, but at the end of the day, the insurance companies advertise and sell: insurance.

Because that lawsuit would get thrown out.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#306

Post by leesalminen »

jimbokun wrote: post #285
senorjazz wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They couldn't tell me why two tylenols, a saline drip, and a prescription cost that much I know the US system is different to what I grew up with (UK NHS), but I have had similar "treatment" when ill as a tourist in 3rd world countries: couple of pills / drip. I understand that the difference of systems in regards to extensive care, but a couple of pills and a drip - why on earth is such basic care just not free to…

Have you been following the quality of people running our government? I mean, I know this seems like just a snarky political comment. But it's just the honest answer. Our federal government is simply completely dysfunctional right now, incapable of solving anything. For what it's worth, "Medicare for All" has been polling increasingly higher recently, due to more Americans being basically ready to give up on the curr…

> dysfunctional right now

Just now? It’s seemed dysfunctional to me since I was capable of understanding government, circa 15 years ago. My parents felt the same way 30 years ago, and their parents felt the same way 50 years ago.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#307

Post by megamindbrian2 »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #186
megamindbrian2 wrote: post #168

Another easy solution, file for bankruptcy. No sane judge will kick a family out of their house over a medical bill. That would be counter productive to their recovery and cause undue hardship. If you don't see the utility in bankruptcy, just remember our President has used it several times over decades. Edit: it's also known as unsecured-debt, which means the worst thing anyone can try to do to you is ruin your cred…

Creditors can do more than ruin your credit score. It's state dependent, but they can also sue you to seize bank accounts, garnish your wages, etc. Fortunately, it's Texas, so wage garnishment is out, as is seizing your primary residence. So is seizure of retirement accounts. Really the practical amount of debt is what the creditor can force you to pay, which is capped at your liquid assets.

True. Good points, so withdraw and store in mattress. Garnishment is still an issue.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#308

Post by megamindbrian2 »

chatmasta wrote: post #202
megamindbrian2 wrote: post #168

Another easy solution, file for bankruptcy. No sane judge will kick a family out of their house over a medical bill. That would be counter productive to their recovery and cause undue hardship. If you don't see the utility in bankruptcy, just remember our President has used it several times over decades. Edit: it's also known as unsecured-debt, which means the worst thing anyone can try to do to you is ruin your cred…

Bankruptcy really is the ultimate medical insurance. In fact, when so many people don't even have $2k in liquid assets, it almost makes more sense to skip paying actual medical insurance, and just declare bankruptcy in the event of massive medical bills. What that doesn't help with, though, is something like being diagnosed with a chronic condition where pills cost $800 a pop.

I've read that it can only be done once every 7 years.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#310

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #133
lacker wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to respond saying that most hospitals are nonprofits and aren't actually making a great profit margin off this sort of overcharging. But then I looked it up and St. David's, despite having a religious nonprofit-sounding name, is actually owned by HCA Healthcare, which is a for-profit that has almost 4x'd its stock price over the past five years while acquiring more hospitals to grow. So, yeah, this one is…

> squeezing money out of insurance companies because they can FTFY. But seriously, how can it possibly be the hospital's fault for doing exactly what the law and market incentives give them every reason to do? There's almost no downward pressure on prices: little competition, no transparent pricing, huge barriers to market entry, and third party payers.

Nobody's denying the facts you gave...lack of competition, lack of transparent pricing, etc.

But to use people's lives as leverage to extract absurd amounts of money goes well beyond being immoral, it's just downright evil.

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