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How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

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Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#121

Post by pchristensen »

Angostura wrote: post #25
TulliusCicero wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. That's not geography, that's urban planning, or a lack of it. America's geographic size meant that we could sprawl, not that we had to. And indeed, especially in the post-WW2 e…

I seem to recall from a geography A-level course about 35 years ago in the UK that historically Los Angeles' spread was something to do with the city fathers offering incentives to adjoining communities to become part of Los Angeles - something like 'call yourself Los Angeles and we'll give you access to our water or electrical grid'. Is that right? A bit hazy after all this time.

Los Angeles had the water supply from Owens Lake, which enabled it to dictate terms to a lot of surrounding land whose owners wanted to develop (e.g. the San Fernando Valley).

It's a huge, fairly flat coastal basin, and although the city limits don't cover the whole area, Los Angeles itself is 500 sq mi, which is larger than Phoenix, or 50% more land than New York City. It's really, really big.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#122

Post by d1zzy »

kazen44 wrote: post #66
tlb wrote: post #33

Another way in which biking in (some parts of) the US isn't casual: pretty much every biker you see in Silicon Valley has bike shorts, a jersey advertising a race or energy drink, clip-in shoes and is riding at VO₂ max. I feel out of place tooling around in street clothes.

This is suchs a strange concept to me as a dutchman. Americans seem to think biking is mainly a sport instead of a mode of transportation. Most dutch people ride on bicycles which are either A) in a constant semi-broken state (students are notorious for this) or B) riding a luxery city bike (usually high income families).

But it makes sense if you think about it: it's a highly risky, not very rewarding experience to bike to work in the US so only the people really into it/passionate about it do it. I would expect a large overlap between people passionate about biking and those that dress in lycra and ride road bikes.

Other reasons that I could see for that: - longer average commute distance for US bike commuters vs other places (which means, you want a nicer/faster bike and comfortable/aerodynamic clothing) - there is a cultural element to it, especially for a certain age group (aka MAMILs) plus the higher relative price of racing equipment isn't an issue for this group

Plus, racing bikes are really very nice bikes. I like to compare it like driving a Ferrari to work, sure, it's not the best place to take advantage of such a car/engine, but it's still a better experience than a regular car (but YMMV, depends on the quality of the road).

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#123

Post by stefan_ »

codr4 wrote: post #27

From having spent quite some time in Amsterdam, I would say that you're safer on a bike than on foot. When a biker rings the bell on you in Amsterdam it's not a heads up or suggestion to get out of the way like in the rest of the world; it's quite possibly the last thing you will ever hear. From my experience, they go fast and expect you to move out of the way. Or you could try to not walk in bike lanes, I guess; not…

Well, you walked into a bike lane. If you walk into a car lane in the US, if the comments on that Uber crash are any indication, a good number of people are perfectly fine with you dieing under the wheels of an inattentive motorist and the police will blame you on the statement of the same motorist alone.

The good news is that people don't generally die from pedestrian-bike collisions; it's a freak event and you are much better off watching your step in the rain unless you slip and fall, a much more common cause of death.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#124

Post by GijsjanB »

neals wrote: post #26

It isn't all fun and games. I had to ride the bike to school for 5 years. Over in the neighbouring city. A 45 minute ride. Alone. Through wind, rain, wind and wind. And rain. That's also part of the culture, because it's safe and ok to send kids, 12 years old, on their own, in the dark over unlit forest roads. Through the wind. Also wind. Saves on bus fare. Which is also typically Dutch. I don't own a bike any more.

A lot of kids do this in The Netherlands. And as far as I can tell, not a lot have a problem with it. It's part of the culture. And as said by another commenter, most kids ride in groups. I think it's healthy to let kids ride on their own and take responsibility, both physically and mentally.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#125

Post by merpnderp »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #90
merpnderp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was turning left to park at lunch and a bicyclist blew through two stop signs at ~45mph and almost t-boned me. I had wrongly assumed he'd stop at the two stops signs and I had plenty of time. Luckily he happily pulled into oncoming traffic to swerve around me. I'm sure in the near future he'll be donating organs to some lucky recipient.

This is so inaccurate, it's almost laughable. The max speed in sprints during the Tour de France [1] is 43.5mph. Unless you encountered a Tour de France rider, I doubt the cyclist blew through at ~45mph. 1: http://slocyclist.com/whats-the-average-speed-of-tour-de-fra...

His bike was electric assisted. No need to be a jerk.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#126

Post by Lio »

tlb wrote: post #33

Another way in which biking in (some parts of) the US isn't casual: pretty much every biker you see in Silicon Valley has bike shorts, a jersey advertising a race or energy drink, clip-in shoes and is riding at VO₂ max. I feel out of place tooling around in street clothes.

As a sport cyclist and bike commuter in the UK I’m able to separate these two activities in my mind.

If I’m pootling to the shops a mile away on my Brompton I generally don’t even bother with a helmet.

If however, I’m off for a 60-100 mile training ride with my club mates I wouldn’t dream of doing it in anything other than bib shorts, jersey and cleated shoes.

I mean you wouldn’t wear a business suit to the gym or jeans to go swimming would you?

Padded shorts and tight fitting lycra are the most comfortable things to wear if you’re going to cycle a long way, long time or just want to go fast on a bike.

If you don’t want to do those things wear what you like, that’s fine too.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#127

Post by merpnderp »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #83
merpnderp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was turning left to park at lunch and a bicyclist blew through two stop signs at ~45mph and almost t-boned me. I had wrongly assumed he'd stop at the two stops signs and I had plenty of time. Luckily he happily pulled into oncoming traffic to swerve around me. I'm sure in the near future he'll be donating organs to some lucky recipient.

What an arrogant view. What danger were you in, almost getting hit by something with 4% your total mass, surrounded by airbags? Yes, that cyclist really deserves to die for scaring you like that.

Maybe you don’t mind being in wrecks where people are significantly injured. But I do mind if some poor misguided soul splatters themselves on the side of my truck. I almost gunned it to get out of his way, but thankfully noticed the pedestrians in front of me.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#128

Post by dmckeon »

codr4 wrote: post #27

From having spent quite some time in Amsterdam, I would say that you're safer on a bike than on foot. When a biker rings the bell on you in Amsterdam it's not a heads up or suggestion to get out of the way like in the rest of the world; it's quite possibly the last thing you will ever hear. From my experience, they go fast and expect you to move out of the way. Or you could try to not walk in bike lanes, I guess; not…

If the pavement below your feet is red, move off of it. Pretend it is hot lava, or stained red with the spilled blood of other naive visitors, if that helps. :-)

I recall red pavement from Hamburg, as well - is it a pattern/standard only for the more coastal/flat places, or common throughout Northern EU countries?

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#129

Post by Tijdreiziger »

the-dude wrote: post #3
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

The cyclist vs motorist dynamic in NL is skewed because practically all motorists are cyclists too.

I am not sure that's true. I (a Dutchman) know plenty of motorists who won't touch a bicycle.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#130

Post by GijsjanB »

grenoire wrote: post #20
phil248 wrote: post #17

I was amazed at how mellow everyone in Amsterdam seemed while riding their bikes. In US cities, most cyclist act like they're in a race. They must run every stop sign, charge down every hill, graze every pedestrian... in downtown Amsterdam most people were going at a leisurely pace and if you get in their way, they just ding a little bell at you.

Get off the red paths and we're good. Jokes (?) aside, I don't think that's because of the cyclist profile but more about the people in the Netherlands in general. People are just not in a rush.

Cycling fast in the city centre is just too dangerous. The (big) city centres are small and crowded. Cycling really fast would result in grave accidents. Cycling for exercise is almost exclusively done outside the cities. Another reason to keep the pace down when commuting, is to minimize sweating.
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