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Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

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Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#271

Post by senorjazz »

dawnerd wrote: post #268
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> never ever pay what you were sent from the hospital right away This is actually good advice. It shocked me when I realised it. But it’s good advice.

People are surprised when I tell them I simply refused the 3k dollar (after insurance) couple hour hospital bill for having the flu. They couldn't tell me why two tylenols, a saline drip, and a prescription cost that much. (I was vomiting blood which is why I was taken in). They ended up dropping the bill altogether as insurance had already paid them.

> They couldn't tell me why two tylenols, a saline drip, and a prescription cost that much

I know the US system is different to what I grew up with (UK NHS), but I have had similar "treatment" when ill as a tourist in 3rd world countries: couple of pills / drip.

I understand that the difference of systems in regards to extensive care, but a couple of pills and a drip - why on earth is such basic care just not free to all?

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#272

Post by sctb »

crististm wrote: post #114
elorant wrote: post #14

40k for four plastic tubes. Why on earth are medical supplies so fucking expensive?

Snowflakes downvoting f-bombs. Pathetic.

I'm sorry but could you please not post like this here? It's against the guidelines.

> Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#273

Post by Thlom »

wang_li wrote: post #222
DanBC wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the NHS has no approved treatment you can go abroad or you can pay privately in the UK. What conditions are you thinking of that don't have "approved" treatments?

Within the NHS specifically, there was the recent case of Alfie Evans[0], where the medical practitioners said there was no hope for him and the family wanted to take him abroad for care. The NHS and the UK legal system decided that his best interests were to die in the UK. His family was not allowed to take him for additional care. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfie_Evans_case

That isn't really an issue with the NHS. If it's an issue it's with the UK's family law which recognises that the parents of a child doesn't always act in the child's best interest and allows the state to intervene.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#274

Post by h4b4n3r0 »

TomVDB wrote: post #241
h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again, US share of taxes in GDP is 26%. Denmark: 50.8, Sweden 49.8, Germany 44.5, France 47.9, UK 34.4. So weighted by GDP it does cost quite a bit.

And how much of this additional cost goes toward medical cost? The US health care issue can only be solved by higher taxes and lower cost (it’s currently at 2x the cost of developed countries.)

Doesn't have to be higher taxes, that's my point. It can be solved by lowering the cost through technology and regulation, which Obama chose not to do, because that would eliminate a ton of jobs. Switzerland has essentially Obamacare, and does cutting edge pharma research (unlike the rest of the world, except for the US), and doctors get decent, albeit not exorbitant, wages (again, unlike in the rest of the world except the US), and if you look at the cost, their insurance is not that expensive, and their taxes are, on the whole, lower than in the rest of Europe. Pumping trillions of dollars through the government only adds overhead, because we all know how terribly inefficient government spending is.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#275

Post by RyanCavanaugh »

sturgill wrote: post #254
rdtsc wrote: post #52

> St. David’s HealthCare defended its handling of Calver’s bill and sought to blame the school district and Aetna for offering such a narrow network. So while dying of a heart attack he should have been negotiating with the ambulance driver, the paramedics, the nurses, each intern and doctor to make sure they are "in-network". > St. David’s said it was now willing to accept $782.29 to resolve the $108,951 balance bec…

I once got cut by a skate playing hockey. Showed up at the hospital pulsing blood from my leg. My first question to them, “Do you take X insurance?” Only after they assured me that my insurance would be accepted did I drag my bloody leg into the care room. Turns out the doctor that the hospital assigned to me did _not_ take my insurance. I got billed the full amount, yelled very loudly at lots of people, and when I “…

It's not a free market if you (literally) can't walk away from the transaction. Trying to apply free market principles to non-free markets is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#276

Post by dawnerd »

defen wrote: post #200
achoped wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always. My mom had a quadruple bypass about 6 years ago during a gap year where she stopped working but didn't have Medicare yet. Unlucky. I think she was billed for around $180k. She told them "I'm on Social Security for $1000/mo, I'll pay you $50/mo". It was basically that or sending it to collections and never getting a dime from a retiree. So they accepted and told her a "non-profit" paid for the doctor's por…

> Just let it go to collections. You'll get harassed for a little over a year. Debt older than a year is almost never pursued by collections agencies. I don't understand. Is there no penalty to not paying other than a hit on your credit score? Can't you end up with wage garnishments or liens or something like that?

It'll definitely show up on your credit report. The key is a lot of lenders supposedly will just look past it. Ultimately it's up to them if you get a loan or not, not just based on the number alone.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#277

Post by 1stranger »

fredsanford wrote: post #245
achoped wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always. My mom had a quadruple bypass about 6 years ago during a gap year where she stopped working but didn't have Medicare yet. Unlucky. I think she was billed for around $180k. She told them "I'm on Social Security for $1000/mo, I'll pay you $50/mo". It was basically that or sending it to collections and never getting a dime from a retiree. So they accepted and told her a "non-profit" paid for the doctor's por…

I'm not sure I believe that debt over a year old is not pursued. Anecdotal, but... I've had 4 different cell phone numbers in my lifetime. All of them were still getting debt collection calls or still are up to 15 years later. I've had my current number for over 15 years. I'd love to meet Tanya who ran up the bills for my current number. Also, I had my appendix rupture right after getting laid off and going on COBRA.…

> COBRA is another scam. $1650 per month that my employer was paying ~$600 for.

COBRA is whatever the employer was paying + 2% administration fee.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#278

Post by int_19h »

sturgill wrote: post #254
rdtsc wrote: post #52

> St. David’s HealthCare defended its handling of Calver’s bill and sought to blame the school district and Aetna for offering such a narrow network. So while dying of a heart attack he should have been negotiating with the ambulance driver, the paramedics, the nurses, each intern and doctor to make sure they are "in-network". > St. David’s said it was now willing to accept $782.29 to resolve the $108,951 balance bec…

I once got cut by a skate playing hockey. Showed up at the hospital pulsing blood from my leg. My first question to them, “Do you take X insurance?” Only after they assured me that my insurance would be accepted did I drag my bloody leg into the care room. Turns out the doctor that the hospital assigned to me did _not_ take my insurance. I got billed the full amount, yelled very loudly at lots of people, and when I “…

> As a free market libertarian, I have no idea what to do about it.

As someone who used to be a free market libertarian: take is as a data point, and make appropriate conclusions. Such as: free market doesn't solve every problem. It doesn't mean that we should ditch it - it's still the least invasive way to allocate resources, so it's a reasonable default. But we shouldn't elevate it to dogma. When it works, great! When it doesn't, regulate it. And thus, we can have the best of both worlds.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#279

Post by benmowa »

acomar wrote: post #95
benmowa wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sounds like an opportunity....

For what? Lay out a business plan in this area for me that doesn't take money from the worst off.

I don't have all the answers, but here's where i'd start:

https://gist.github.com/ndarville/4295324

I'd start with a mentally forced mashup for each to get a few that might work. e.g. "If i've got to make money by lead generation with a medical bill review service/app, how could i do it?"

Then i'd focus on how we'd drive value to the consumers.

Then think about driving value to others parties who may be willing to pay for something similar.

ie would pharmaceutical and medical device companies be willing to communicate directly with these consumers?

note i'm not saying its easy by any means, but i do think its a real problem that could take off if an elegant and worthwhile solution came about.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#280

Post by hogwild »

lacker wrote: post #36
jhayward wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sounds all fine and dandy until you realize that these charges will just be made up for by people that aren't able to get NPR to publish a story about them. No, St. David's has already fully recouped their costs and then some. They were simply trying to extract as much money as the stone could bleed.

I was going to respond saying that most hospitals are nonprofits and aren't actually making a great profit margin off this sort of overcharging. But then I looked it up and St. David's, despite having a religious nonprofit-sounding name, is actually owned by HCA Healthcare, which is a for-profit that has almost 4x'd its stock price over the past five years while acquiring more hospitals to grow. So, yeah, this one is…

HCA is owned by Bill Frist's family. Dirty stuff.
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