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How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

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Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#61

Post by gowld »

soared wrote: post #11
bunderbunder wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, whenever I see articles about Dutch cycling culture, the thing that stands out to me is that nobody is wearing helmets. In the US, I wouldn't dream of doing that - it's just too dangerous, because there's too much risk of being involved in a high speed collision. But, after having spent some time in the Netherlands, it's come to feel like a minor injustice every time I put my helmet on. It's a little…

I believe in countries/cities like these its safer to not use a helmet. Drivers see that your being unsafe and give you much more room and are more aware of you. Less accidents and less deaths in total by not wearing a helmet! I couldn't find the study that was posted on hn, but there are lots of articles.

It's complicated.

https://bigthink.com/neurobonkers/the-bike-helmet-paradox

The short answer is, "wear a helmet if you have one, and try to get one, but if you don't have one, you should still bike anyway."

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#62

Post by kazen44 »

dantheman0207 wrote: post #54
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the fact they didn't have a significant car industry helped with this.

Actually, in 1972 the Netherlands did have a rapidly growing car industry on their own soil. Three years later it sold a majority stake to Volví after growth dropped off, but up until 1973 it was growing at a rapid pace. It was a significant source of jobs in the south, where it was based. They employed >80k people and were building a new factory. I used to live in housing designed for factory workers of DAF. The com…

Also, NEDCAR/VDL still has quite a large factory in the south of the netherlands, although it is only used for final assembly and mainly producing for different manufacturers. (also, it does some parts manufacturing for car factories in the ruhr area).

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#63

Post by gowld »

linguistbreaker wrote: post #6
the-dude wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cyclist vs motorist dynamic in NL is skewed because practically all motorists are cyclists too.

I would say the dynamic is skewed in the US because so few motorists are cyclists. Just perspective.

There is no natural origin to be skewed from. It's relative. both statements are equally correct, and leave out the relative context.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#64

Post by s73v3r_ »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #43
jchanimal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also feels safer to be going closer to car speed

It feels safer because it is safer. Having to be aware of traffic that's moving at a substantially different speed than one's self is extra cognitive load that benefits neither the fast or slow traffic. Humans have a finite amount of attention they can give to what they're doing. This applies to kayaks and boats as much as it does to bikes and cars. This is just a

That is mainly because, in the US, most bike lanes are not separate from the road, but just a painted line on the road.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#65

Post by hathawsh »

tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #12
Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

Very select cities are pretty good for biking. Boulder CO, for instance is pretty great b/c most people there bike. But yeah for a lot of places it's a nightmare. Also our metro areas tend to spread out quite a bit, so to get from one area to another typically involves biking >5 miles.

I'd also like to congratulate Utah for recently completing over 100 miles of commuter-friendly bike trails that connect nearly all of the most populous cities.

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/golden-spoke-trail-ne...

http://wfrc.org/programs/active-transportation/golden-spoke/

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#66

Post by kazen44 »

tlb wrote: post #33

Another way in which biking in (some parts of) the US isn't casual: pretty much every biker you see in Silicon Valley has bike shorts, a jersey advertising a race or energy drink, clip-in shoes and is riding at VO₂ max. I feel out of place tooling around in street clothes.

This is suchs a strange concept to me as a dutchman.

Americans seem to think biking is mainly a sport instead of a mode of transportation.

Most dutch people ride on bicycles which are either A) in a constant semi-broken state (students are notorious for this) or B) riding a luxery city bike (usually high income families).

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#67

Post by bogomipz »

Rainymood wrote: post #2

As a Dutch person I am pleasantly surprised by this article, it gets basically everything right. One thing though is that our geography works well with biking. I visited the US recently and you can drive for 30 minutes in a car and you are still in LA, if you drive for 30 minutes in the Netherlands you're in a completely different city. Everything is just closer and hence more bike-able. As a dutch person I would abs…

>"One thing though is that our geography works well with biking."

And the topography doesn't hurt - its flat as a pancake.

Also isn't it possible to basically ride between every city in the Netherlands? I once biked from Rotterdam to Den Hague using only bike paths and protected bike lanes. I got the impression that I could continue riding to Amsterdam in the same fashion if wanted to.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#68

Post by kazen44 »

cr1895 wrote: post #16
wjnc wrote: post #4

A main one not pointed out: cars are always (extreme negligence would be the tipping point) liable for crashes with cyclists and pedestrians. That's quite supportive for keeping an eye out for possible danger. To support that liability insurance is obligatory for motorists. The one on left vs. right really is not even close to an issue. I would guess most MPs of most parties cycle to work. There is literally not a (n…

There’s something to be said about which parties favor encouraging or discouraging car use in cities or restrictions of motorized vehicles on the cycle paths (which the interview also did not really cover). But you’re right...no one is discouraging biking.

Also, road design in the netherlands is specifically designed to seperate cars and bikes as much as possible. ( a crash between bikes is far less dangerous compared to a car-bike crash).

If that is not possible, they design roads in a way which forces people to slow down to "safe" speeds. (50km/h or lower usually).

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#69

Post by nextos »

cr1895 wrote: post #13

It wasn’t always this way. There’s an interesting clip from a documentary in 1972 about the neighborhood De Pijp in Amsterdam, when it was still very much a car-centric city. At the time children in the area protested how dangerous the streets had become and how they lacked safe areas to play. https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2013/12/12/amsterdam-chil... Compared to the situation now, it’s vastly improved. Fortunat…

It was the same with Denmark. And especially Copenhagen. They went from a very car-centric society to a remarkably bike-centric one. Despite bad weather. All due to the Oil Crisis. Unlike other governments in the rest of EU, it seems that both the Dutch and the Danes understood a change was needed.

I've read urbanism brochures from the 1960s, when the Technical University was getting moved from central Copenhagen to a suburb (Lyngby), and it's remarkable how car-centric the design was. An old airport, where the runway was converted into a huge parking lot, and commuting by car was carefully considered to weight all decisions.

Re: How the Dutch created a casual biking culture

#70

Post by DoreenMichele »

the bike alone doesn’t replace the private automobile, and neither does public transit, but when you combine the two, that’s when the magic happens. Then the car becomes redundant in cities.

I love the picture of a guy moving a bed on an oversized and strange (to my eyes) three wheeler.

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