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Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

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Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#241

Post by TomVDB »

h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #229
TomVDB wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone needs to pay for it Or you could pay less for it. There are many studies that show how the US system has incredibly high overhead that simply isn't needed. Just an example: in the US, a primary care physician usually has a nurse and somebody who handles paperwork, insurance BS, and what not. Most European countries simply don't have this, mostly because there is no insurance BS to deal with. There is insura…

Once again, US share of taxes in GDP is 26%. Denmark: 50.8, Sweden 49.8, Germany 44.5, France 47.9, UK 34.4. So weighted by GDP it does cost quite a bit.

And how much of this additional cost goes toward medical cost?

The US health care issue can only be solved by higher taxes and lower cost (it’s currently at 2x the cost of developed countries.)

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#242

Post by krupan »

burkaman wrote: post #226
krupan wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"listing every conceivable illness and injury" No. Just the ones that are true emergencies where you won't have time to do any shopping around ahead of time. Why is this such a hard concept? Think of all the times you've seen a doctor in your life. How many of those were super time critical? Big accidents and heart attacks are. Having a cold or flu isn't. Heck, even cancer isn't super time critical, you could take a…

Ok, here's one list, I'm sure it isn't comprehensive: http://ourmed.org/wiki/List_of_medical_emergencies So for each item on this list you'll need to find out every possible treatment and drug and what they cost at every hospital within ~50 miles. Make sure you look up allergies and any side effects when combined with medication you regularly take, you don't want to be in a situation where you listed Hospital X for m…

Your google skills are strong. How many things on that list need treatment within minutes?

"Is there anything else in your life that you shop around for in case of emergency?"

Have you never heard of Preppers? But seriously, yes, I shopped around a little for a fire extinguisher in my home, I shopped around a bit for a good first aid class so I'd have some skills. I have spare batteries around the house in case the power goes out and shopped around for a flashlight. I have practiced changing a tire for my car just in case. I have a little food stored up in my house.

Why is preparing ahead of time completely off the table for people when it comes to medical care?

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#243

Post by sriram_sun »

FireBeyond wrote: post #96
jtokoph wrote: post #7

> UPDATE: Monday, shortly after publication and broadcast of this story by Kaiser Health News and NPR, St. David’s said it was now willing to accept $782.29 to resolve the $108,951 balance because Drew Calver qualifies for its “financial assistance discount.” Sounds all fine and dandy until you realize that these charges will just be made up for by people that aren't able to get NPR to publish a story about them.

When you realize that the hospital was charging $19,000 for a stent that cost $1,500, you realize that painting Calver as someone who is going to cost us all money is misdirected anger. And, to be clear, they charged $19,000 for the stent, not "stent plus theater time to place it plus surgeon, anesthesiology, OR nurses", of course not. Those are all absolutely billed separately.

I believe there should be legal consequences for getting things this wrong. Wondering how they came up with the $19,000 number.

Also, in speaking with a vascular surgeon I know, their hourly rate is between 200-350/hr. The middlemen and hospitals have figured out how to milk this cow and they're feasting.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#244

Post by maxxxxx »

eric_the_read wrote: post #147
jjeaff wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get a price upfront in my experience. Especially for standard procedures. And definitely for outpatient stuff. But it isn't reasonable to expect upfront pricing in things as complicated as heart surgery. Or where you are going in for unknown problems. There is no way to know what complications may arise or additional procedures, x-rays or scans may be required.

I was having trouble sleeping for a while; at one point my doctor recommending I go on oxygen for a while until she could figure it out. I called the company that provided the oxygen, and asked how much it would cost. Nobody knew. I called back 3 times, and still nobody could tell me. I called my insurance company; they couldn't tell me either. I ended up electing not to use it (which turned out to be perfectly fine)…

That matches my experience. Or you get quoted $100 and charged $3000 which after some back and forth turns into $50.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#245

Post by fredsanford »

achoped wrote: post #85
jtokoph wrote: post #7

> UPDATE: Monday, shortly after publication and broadcast of this story by Kaiser Health News and NPR, St. David’s said it was now willing to accept $782.29 to resolve the $108,951 balance because Drew Calver qualifies for its “financial assistance discount.” Sounds all fine and dandy until you realize that these charges will just be made up for by people that aren't able to get NPR to publish a story about them.

Not always. My mom had a quadruple bypass about 6 years ago during a gap year where she stopped working but didn't have Medicare yet. Unlucky. I think she was billed for around $180k. She told them "I'm on Social Security for $1000/mo, I'll pay you $50/mo". It was basically that or sending it to collections and never getting a dime from a retiree. So they accepted and told her a "non-profit" paid for the doctor's por…

I'm not sure I believe that debt over a year old is not pursued. Anecdotal, but...

I've had 4 different cell phone numbers in my lifetime. All of them were still getting debt collection calls or still are up to 15 years later. I've had my current number for over 15 years. I'd love to meet Tanya who ran up the bills for my current number.

Also, I had my appendix rupture right after getting laid off and going on COBRA. I am still getting occasional calls about that even though the insurance eventually paid off. That was over 10 years ago.

COBRA is another scam. $1650 per month that my employer was paying ~$600 for.

Scumbaggery is rife in the insurance industry. The Rainmaker should be required watching...

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#246

Post by ChuckMcM »

sriram_sun wrote: post #243
FireBeyond wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you realize that the hospital was charging $19,000 for a stent that cost $1,500, you realize that painting Calver as someone who is going to cost us all money is misdirected anger. And, to be clear, they charged $19,000 for the stent, not "stent plus theater time to place it plus surgeon, anesthesiology, OR nurses", of course not. Those are all absolutely billed separately.

I believe there should be legal consequences for getting things this wrong. Wondering how they came up with the $19,000 number. Also, in speaking with a vascular surgeon I know, their hourly rate is between 200-350/hr. The middlemen and hospitals have figured out how to milk this cow and they're feasting.

Absolutely, and it is this sort of practice that all Americans could get behind legislation that made it illegal. Unfortunately we can't seem to have a civil discussion on health care to find the issues we have in common.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#247

Post by mrguyorama »

jfk13 wrote: post #220
jhayward wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've suddenly started seeing this take all over the place and I have no idea where it comes from because it doesn't make sense. That the insurance companies profit margins are restricted means rather little because executive pay isn't capped: if they earn too much money, they can simply pay bonuses to raise their expenses. Or cut shareholders a check. Or. Or. Or. Tangentially, this is why "non-profit" doesn't mean…

> This is not correct, as I understand it. Under the ACA (Obamacare), health plan providers had to ensure that at least 80% of premiums were paid out for patient services. That leaves 20% for overheard, including profit and compensation. Doesn't this imply that it's in the interest of health plan providers for patient services in general to be as expensive as possible? That means premiums will have to be correspondin…

That's been one of the biggest complaints about Obamacare, yes. Other than the "I shouldn't have to pay for my neighbor's wellbeing" complaint

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#248

Post by Marazan »

jtokoph wrote: post #7

> UPDATE: Monday, shortly after publication and broadcast of this story by Kaiser Health News and NPR, St. David’s said it was now willing to accept $782.29 to resolve the $108,951 balance because Drew Calver qualifies for its “financial assistance discount.” Sounds all fine and dandy until you realize that these charges will just be made up for by people that aren't able to get NPR to publish a story about them.

No, it just means they will make a little less profit.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#249

Post by krupan »

Terr_ wrote: post #235
krupan wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, humans are shortsighted and stupid. That's why we need state-sponsored medical care. Run by humans.

Not sure if you're joking, but that's a pretty lazy fallacy of composition there. Ex: Human memory sucks, but you can generally trust the immutability of books, despite them being written and copied and bound and distributed and sold by humans. It's all about using strengths in the right direction and order to sidestep weaknesses.

Fallacy of composition says I look at a few stupid humans and decide that all humans are stupid. That's what the person who I was replying to was doing in reply to my original post. I was trying to point out that if their supposition is true then we are all screwed no matter what.

Fortunately their supposition is false. Humans are not generally shortsighted and stupid, if you give them a chance.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#250

Post by Marazan »

loeg wrote: post #211
antisthenes wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hospitals should be legally mandated to accept replacement of materials in lieu of payment. If I can source the same stents for cheaper than the hospital bills me, they should be required to erase them from the bill and accept them as material replacement. It's not as if medical supplies are unavailable to the end consumer. https://www.esutures.com/product/0-in-date/41-boston-scienti... Here are the stents available…

> Hospitals should be legally mandated to accept replacement of materials in lieu of payment. > If I can source the same stents for cheaper than the hospital bills me, they should be required to erase them from the bill and accept them as material replacement. Meh. The only reason they inflate supply costs is because that's where insurance negotiations let them. Mandating supplies must be available at-cost to consume…

Health care is not a regular market. You can't shop around for emergency care when your leg is severed or you are unconscious in a car accident.

Healthcare can and should be heavily regulated, its not like buying a hammer.

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