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Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

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Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#191

Post by achoped »

gav wrote: post #169
achoped wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always. My mom had a quadruple bypass about 6 years ago during a gap year where she stopped working but didn't have Medicare yet. Unlucky. I think she was billed for around $180k. She told them "I'm on Social Security for $1000/mo, I'll pay you $50/mo". It was basically that or sending it to collections and never getting a dime from a retiree. So they accepted and told her a "non-profit" paid for the doctor's por…

I worked with somebody who at 23 was bitten by a cat and it got infected. She didn't want to seek medical treatment even though her hand swelled up like crazy--"I don't have insurance, I will get better". I basically forced her to go to the hospital and she ended up spending a couple of days in the ICU. They told her if she waited another day, she might not have made it. Total cost, something around $23,000 I think.…

Another anecdote about my mom. A few months ago she was rushed to the hospital for symptoms of a pulmonary embolism. She spent 36 hours in the critical care unit. They couldn't determine what caused her episode; no clots, etc. They charged her $25k for that. That's how fucked up the situation is. A single night in a hospital that may save your life ends up costing almost what your kid/grandkid is paying for a year of college.

Recently she got a bill for $250 for the ambulance, which she paid, and another letter saying her bill for the hospital stay was settled. She told me she would have offered $15/mo had they held her to the $25k or told them to screw off if they didn't accept. They're not even bothering anymore.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#193

Post by krupan »

dragonwriter wrote: post #153
krupan wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the insurance market doesn't work like that. You get a job, that job determines your insurance. There's no shopping around for the best rates.

> Except the insurance market doesn't work like that. You get a job, that job determines your insurance. That's not really the source of the lack of competition, as employers are motivated to minimize rates for what they ger, whether they are seeking to fulfill a government minimum-coverage mandate or provide a competitive benefit to attract/retain staff. (It is a source of some other problems, just not the one at is…

Instead of insurance companies competing for millions of individual customers, they are vying for maybe thousands of business customers. Except that the insurance companies don't seem to care at all about giving small businesses a good deal, so subtract them from the pool of potential customers that insurance companies care about. Really big businesses don't buy insurance, they just self insure, so insurance companies aren't competing for those customers either.

Employer provided insurance absolutely reduces competitive forces (among other problems it causes, as you point out).

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#194

Post by ArchTypical »

FireBeyond wrote: post #96
jtokoph wrote: post #7

> UPDATE: Monday, shortly after publication and broadcast of this story by Kaiser Health News and NPR, St. David’s said it was now willing to accept $782.29 to resolve the $108,951 balance because Drew Calver qualifies for its “financial assistance discount.” Sounds all fine and dandy until you realize that these charges will just be made up for by people that aren't able to get NPR to publish a story about them.

When you realize that the hospital was charging $19,000 for a stent that cost $1,500, you realize that painting Calver as someone who is going to cost us all money is misdirected anger. And, to be clear, they charged $19,000 for the stent, not "stent plus theater time to place it plus surgeon, anesthesiology, OR nurses", of course not. Those are all absolutely billed separately.

Paying 300-500/mo for decades, as a chronic heart patient here. I've had multiple open heart surgeries and nothing sweeter than paying 6k for the recovery room and 0 for the surgery (along with sweet receipts for 1mil in aggregate surgery costs). The separate billing is a pointless red herring, in context of the article.

$10,920 for room charges is absolutely ludicrous.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#195

Post by s73v3r_ »

donretag wrote: post #20

"Calver asked whether his health insurance would cover all of this... The hospital told him not to worry and that they would accept his insurance." From my experience, it is completely legal for any medical practitioner to say they accept an insurance even though they really do not.

Yeah, but if they say that, then they should be responsible if they are wrong.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#196

Post by h4b4n3r0 »

freeone3000 wrote: post #176
h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I'd switch immediately a well I doubt it. Someone needs to pay for it, so this switch would have to imply a 20% tax increase. Unless you’re paid peanuts, it’s not worth the tradeoff.

Huh? Tax rates are not 20% higher in Canada than in the US, and we somehow muddle through.

That’s why I deliberately did not say income tax rates. They ream you in other ways. Canada’s taxes as percentage of GDP are 31.7%. US is 26%. And on top of that I was referring to Western Europe, where they are close to or above 50% GDP.

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#197

Post by walshemj »

h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #139
TomVDB wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in some systems, horror stories are way more common than others. The simple fact is that I don't know anybody from my European family or friends who would willingly switch their system to the US one. And as a very well insured employee in the US, if, hypothetically, I had the option to use my European health care in the US, I'd switch immediately a well.

>> I'd switch immediately a well I doubt it. Someone needs to pay for it, so this switch would have to imply a 20% tax increase. Unless you’re paid peanuts, it’s not worth the tradeoff.

But you would save more by not having to buy your own medical insurance.

I know an expat who moved to work for citi in the states from the UK and he was paying around 20% just for him -his wife kids are covered by her federal Job.

UK NI is about 13% and that includes state pension, unemployment and the NHS

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#199

Post by smittywerben »

When you are out of network then you are responsible to submit the claim to insurance. I paid The scary part is you must carry this risk to your insurance who can then deny the out-of-network claim.

Am I misunderstanding something here, or is everyone else not understanding?

Re: Insured, but Still Owing $109K for a Heart Attack

#200

Post by defen »

achoped wrote: post #85
jtokoph wrote: post #7

> UPDATE: Monday, shortly after publication and broadcast of this story by Kaiser Health News and NPR, St. David’s said it was now willing to accept $782.29 to resolve the $108,951 balance because Drew Calver qualifies for its “financial assistance discount.” Sounds all fine and dandy until you realize that these charges will just be made up for by people that aren't able to get NPR to publish a story about them.

Not always. My mom had a quadruple bypass about 6 years ago during a gap year where she stopped working but didn't have Medicare yet. Unlucky. I think she was billed for around $180k. She told them "I'm on Social Security for $1000/mo, I'll pay you $50/mo". It was basically that or sending it to collections and never getting a dime from a retiree. So they accepted and told her a "non-profit" paid for the doctor's por…

> Just let it go to collections. You'll get harassed for a little over a year. Debt older than a year is almost never pursued by collections agencies.

I don't understand. Is there no penalty to not paying other than a hit on your credit score? Can't you end up with wage garnishments or liens or something like that?

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