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Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem

nytimes.com

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Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem

#151

Post by creep »

I've never been able to figure out my sleep schedule and have always conformed to these positive ideas we associate with early risers, but this article, despite its weird elitism, has given me some hope.

I like to go to bed late, but I also like to wake up early. Sometimes I can't wake up until noon. Sometimes waking up at noon feels like shit. Sometimes I'll spontaneously awaken at 7am and feel amazing until about noon. Sometimes I'll be dead-tired at 9pm. Sometimes I'll set my alarm for 9am and wake up at 8am-- sometimes its the opposite.

It makes no sense because I go to bed at pretty much the same time every night (between 1 and 3 am, usually 2am).

I feel inspired to monitor my natural sleep now and figure out what's going on, rather than constantly trying (and failing) to conform to 10pm-6am.

Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem

#152

Post by elhudy »

coldtea wrote: post #42
elhudy wrote: post #26

>According to Dr. Walker, about 40 percent of the population are morning people, 30 percent are evening people, and the remainder land somewhere in between. I'm not a sleep expert or a neuroscientist, but I take issue with being branded into a sleep-band that is "hard-written" into my DNA. I perform at my worst when I wake at times other than my current habit allows for - whether that is early or late. I don't believ…

It's not some random commenter that assumed the cronotype though, it's scientists. So, you can take it with them. Or you could an outlier, but it's not like this flexibility you mention is statistically true for most people. What has been studied is statistically true.

I wanted to check in on this because I am genuinely interested in reading the study. Were you able to find it?

Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem

#153

Post by LifeQuestioner »

Retric wrote: post #75
LifeQuestioner wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish I could sleep by 2am. It would make life possible. My natural sleep pattern is 5am-12. I've literally spent the last decade trying to solve it. Until, I gave up.

Move to a new time zone and that 'natural' 5am-12 would shift to match that time zone. So, it's really not about biology it's about how you set up your environment. That said, as long as it's working for you great! Just don't assume it's impossible to change if it's causing you problems.

This is not your fault, as you really do not know the lengths and depths and tears and effort it has taken for me to change my sleep pattern to be consistent. But there is no "assumption here".

A main problem is - even when i've had to be awake at 9am every day (yes awake at 9am, not working at 9am) it causes me to fall really ill. Mentally and physically your body feels wrecked and it doesn't matter how tired you are, you wake up at night.

I now, after a decade, manage a sleep cycle that doesn't change every day by a few hours and I can just about function enough for meetings.

I can just about get to 1pm meetings and it's taken so much effort just to be able to get here!

I've written nearly 4 articles covering the different strategies i've used to be able to wake up early in the morning. I've slept through some of the most important things - which led me in my final exams to just stay up all night to get to 9am exams incase I wouldn't wake up.

What has worked is accepting that it is a genuine disability and problem. And as you say, adjusting my environment to suit my sleeping issues. Unfortunately, changing time zones doesn't work. But it's a nice theory (I've already tried this).

I'll be posting my articles soon which documents every strategy i've tried over the last decade, in hope it might help someone find a solution for them.

Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem

#154

Post by collyw »

collyw wrote: post #140

Can someone convince me that this problem isn't in your head? I used to consider myself a "night owl" until I observed something: I was travelling in Chile and went up to Peru. There was a two hour time difference despite being at more or less the same longitude (I think Chile shifted its clocks in summer while Peru didn't, and there was a one hour difference on top of that). Guess what? I got used to it in a few day…

I was actually hoping for some constructive rebuttals of this.

Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem

#155

Post by collyw »

dtien wrote: post #2

As someone who also has atypical sleep patterns ( late sleeper, early riser ), there were some interesting points in here. I know there's been research done as well on the number of hours of sleep required rather than 'when' it occurs, but those haven't seem to have reached a consensus yet. I will say some of these articles sometimes read satirically. Notably, they have a diagnosis for people who can't sleep at 'norm…

"what societal as well as productivity improvements"

In my experience it is likely to give some sort of decrease.

I have worked in places with very flexible working hours and my team leader was always in later than me (officially we were supposed to be in by 10 am, but 11 am was more normal for him. I on the other hand got woken up by my girlfriend for her job, so i started at 9 like most other people).

Basically if I had something to ask him in those two hours I had to wait, which ended up being a bit of a pain in the arse overall.

Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem

#156

Post by collyw »

Retric wrote: post #68
adrianmonk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to work (or other morning activities), I think there are actually two aspects to this that often get confused. One is what you're talking about: the way people regard waking up early as virtuous. The other is that, how early or late you arrive to an event sends signals about your attitude toward the event. Or at least it is interpreted that way. For example, if you are very excited about seeing a partic…

Showing up a little late to a party is more courteous as the hosts have just a little more time to set things up without needing to entertain people. Showing up early on the other hand often put's people who are not ready on the spot. If you regularly host parties who will get annoyed at people that show up 30+ minutes early unless they are willing to help.

This varies a lot from country to country as we noticed working with a very international group of friends in Spain.

My friend basically sent out an invite to her party with staggered start times based on nationality. Spanish Greeks were asked to come two or three hours before the real start time, French one hour and Brits and Germans were given the actual time.

Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem

#157

Post by collyw »

LifeQuestioner wrote: post #54
danvasquez29 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as an early riser myself, what bothers me about this is that I personally feel like I'm only talking about because someone else is making a big deal out of it. I don't think I go out of my way to bring the topic up, but I'm constantly getting people saying things like "omg I saw when you sent that email/made that commit/whatever, do you ever sleep", and then I gotta say something like "well I was up at 5 so I knocked…

I really wish I could sleep by 2am. It would make life possible. My natural sleep pattern is 5am-12. I've literally spent the last decade trying to solve it. Until, I gave up.

Does this change at all when the clocks go back / forward? How long does it take you to adjust then?

In my opinion the 2am is just a conceptual thing and there is nothing concrete about it - we change it twice a year and most people adjust fairly quickly.

Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem

#158

Post by Retric »

LifeQuestioner wrote: post #153
Retric wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Move to a new time zone and that 'natural' 5am-12 would shift to match that time zone. So, it's really not about biology it's about how you set up your environment. That said, as long as it's working for you great! Just don't assume it's impossible to change if it's causing you problems.

This is not your fault, as you really do not know the lengths and depths and tears and effort it has taken for me to change my sleep pattern to be consistent. But there is no "assumption here". A main problem is - even when i've had to be awake at 9am every day (yes awake at 9am, not working at 9am) it causes me to fall really ill. Mentally and physically your body feels wrecked and it doesn't matter how tired you ar…

>change every day by a few hours

I personally know someone that lived on a 28 hour day for a while (6 * 28 / 7 = 24). He was able to keep a fairly normal workday during the week but over the weekend he was crashing in the day. It only worked because he was religious about managing light levels at home with blackout blinds and sunlamps on timers.

If your willing to try just about anything it might be worth a shot, but you end up making a lot of sacrifices and must keep a very tight schedule.

Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem

#159

Post by LifeQuestioner »

Retric wrote: post #158
LifeQuestioner wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not your fault, as you really do not know the lengths and depths and tears and effort it has taken for me to change my sleep pattern to be consistent. But there is no "assumption here". A main problem is - even when i've had to be awake at 9am every day (yes awake at 9am, not working at 9am) it causes me to fall really ill. Mentally and physically your body feels wrecked and it doesn't matter how tired you ar…

>change every day by a few hours I personally know someone that lived on a 28 hour day for a while (6 * 28 / 7 = 24). He was able to keep a fairly normal workday during the week but over the weekend he was crashing in the day. It only worked because he was religious about managing light levels at home with blackout blinds and sunlamps on timers. If your willing to try just about anything it might be worth a shot, but…

I've been on a non-24 hour rhythm :). My sleep would change every day by 4-6 hours.

I've had shutters for my windows so no light could get in the evening, light simulation alarm clocks, only used the computer for a maximum of 8 hours a day and got rid of my smart-phone so I had an old fashioned phone, to reduce phone use. I don't drink coffee or tea. Melatonin, sleeping tablets, waking up every day at the same time and going for a run.

Fyi, waking up every time at the same day makes me ill because I still can't sleep early even if i've had a lack of sleep for several nights before.

You can't crash at weekends either. Because if you crash at weekends it messes up your sleep cycle completely and you'll start Monday having slept at 6am on Sunday night.

A tight schedule means you have to do it every day. Then there's the other problem that happens when you crash out - you're really groggy for days.

When I was in school, I'd crash out at 4pm on a Friday night and wake up at 7am the next day. I'd have headaches and feel so drained. And I'd still go to my weekend job.

It's not a lack of motivation.

If you know anything about this guy and the strategies he uses, please do share. Always looking for suggestions.

Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem

#160

Post by BrandoElFollito »

wpietri wrote: post #7

Based on the title, I was hoping it was about something else, something I talk about frequently with people who think they have sleep problems: human sleep is naturally biphasic. I know a lot of people who think waking up in the middle of the night means they have a disease, insomnia. When the truth is that before electric light, normal sleep was going to bed when it got dark, being awake for a while in the middle of…

I heard about this through my interest in the French Middle Ages sociology.

I was always wondering, though how this worked in summer when the nights are short and one can hardly afford a meaningful break in the middle (if not napping in the afternoon)

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