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Why Love Generative Art?

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Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#41

Can anyone recommend tools for getting into generative art? I have tried using a gamedev engine. It worked OK, but there have got to be better suited tools out there.

Processing is probably the most popular and accessible.

OpenFrameworks and Cinder are probably a bit more powerful, but more difficult to use (built around c++).

I also like PaperJS, which is built around JavaScript, but doesn't have the performance of Processing and OpenFrameworks.

Finally, you can just use raw drawing APIs (such as Canvas in the browser).

Good list of resources here: https://github.com/kosmos/awesome-generative-art

Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#42
post #22

The problem with generative art is not that it isn’t considered art by everyone. The main problems are: - It is very difficult to value. One can’t see at a glance whether it took time or skill to create. And similar to other types of art that involve mechanical reproduction, e.g. photography, generative art can be produced on demand, it’s not irreplaceable like a sculpture or painting is. - It usually lacks a good st…

I also love generative art ... mostly .... and I've made quite a bit but .......

The problem I have is generally when it appears to me it didn't require much effort. Making a program that draws random dots, random rectangles, random lines, is almost a rite of passage for new programmers. A lot of generative art looks like hardly many more steps beyond that. Draw 100 rectangle each slightly smaller and rotated from the previous and you get a beautiful spiral.

I know my own rarely take more than 30 minutes each. I just take some existing generator and start tweaking. If I get something mildly pleasing I save it. But I rarely promote it because I feel at some level it was farted out, it was a sketch, a doodle, not a "work" of art.

Of course I know effort is probably not a valid criteria but still, it's sometimes hard not to see what appears to be low-effort generative art as barely more than the random dot/line/rectangle exercise most programmers do early in their learning. Like instead of 100% random colors use HSL and only vary the values 10% from some initial value and suddenly it's "art". (pick light blue and it's snow on the ground, pick light brown and it's sand, pick green and it's grass, pick red/orange/yellow and it's lava). It makes it hard to know when it crossed the line from learning to code to "art".

Of course like I said I still appreciate generative art but for some reason my own block is that I need to perceive effort. It can even be simple but I have to look at it and think something like "That was simple but took a long time to find the right parameters to get it to look that pleasing".

Let me add, it's a pie in the sky dream of mine to have/run/start/manage a kinetic interactive art museum the size of the Exploritorium in SF with constantly new exhibits much of which would be generative art.

Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#43
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main problems are: Those are problems, but I think you're accidentally digging backwards to find them. If you want to make a living in art, selling to collectors and galleries, it's really not about pragmatic economic concerns like these. It's about having a community of patrons and collectors who can't help but talk about and trade the work at galleries and dinner parties. As that catches, people will inevitab…

> I think you’re accidentally digging backwards to find them. You might be completely right. Though I’m not sure I understand what you mean by digging backwards. The problems I see are, of course, the main problems I’ve personally run into. I have a hard time telling a compelling story to someone who doesn’t know anything about computers or math. When I look around, I can see that many other people have the same prob…

> Just curious - have you actually tried selling art?

Indeed. But I understand what you're seeing in my comment.

As a restatement: your art's marketability is firstly dependent on your style/genre/technique being in fashion. Generative art is a curiosity, but still isn't in fashion. You and I are probably not the ones to bring it into fashion; that'll happen when/if somebody well-connected pitches their work's story very well or a collector/curator pitches a their discovery story very well. Presumably, we both have better things to do than position ourselves for that, because it's a lifelong effort and a risky one.

So in the meantime, it's sort of a waiting game where we're left to either do our thing or direct ourselves towards a different style.

That said, stories do matter. But it's not hard to identify them, even for generative art. They just don't become the "good art stories" you're talking about until somebody creates the market and sets a standard.

And pragmatics like reproducibility and constraint absolutely matter, but again, the standard for what that means in generative art will be some collector/curator's discovery as the market develops. It's not the detail we need to worry about, because we can always make our work constrained in the necessary way when the time comes.

I guess what I'm saying is that being an experimental/emerging artist sometimes runs orthogonal to creating a market for our art. Creating that market (by struggling against "main problems") is a lot of work on it's own and takes away from either the making of art or from other parts of life.

And yes, it's frustrating.

Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#44
post #22

The problem with generative art is not that it isn’t considered art by everyone. The main problems are: - It is very difficult to value. One can’t see at a glance whether it took time or skill to create. And similar to other types of art that involve mechanical reproduction, e.g. photography, generative art can be produced on demand, it’s not irreplaceable like a sculpture or painting is. - It usually lacks a good st…

I also love generative art ... mostly .... and I've made quite a bit but ....... The problem I have is generally when it appears to me it didn't require much effort. Making a program that draws random dots, random rectangles, random lines, is almost a rite of passage for new programmers. A lot of generative art looks like hardly many more steps beyond that. Draw 100 rectangle each slightly smaller and rotated from th…

[deleted]

Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#45
post #22

The problem with generative art is not that it isn’t considered art by everyone. The main problems are: - It is very difficult to value. One can’t see at a glance whether it took time or skill to create. And similar to other types of art that involve mechanical reproduction, e.g. photography, generative art can be produced on demand, it’s not irreplaceable like a sculpture or painting is. - It usually lacks a good st…

> The problem with generative art is

There are no problems. It's just another art form.

> I’ve met a lot of people who hate all things digital, as well as a lot of people who get what I do and love it

So just ignore them. There is always an audience who will appreciate your work.

> I explored what it might take to make a living from generative art

I'm doing that currently as well, but I think it always will be my side project. If it pays the rent, I'll be more than happy :)

Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#46
Are there any artists who work in kind of the intersection between data visualisation and generative art? I'm thinking of works where the main point is not necessarily to show the data as clearly as possible (i.e not a graph), but rather where the data is somehow interleaved and helps tell the story. Somewhat similar to the map of the US in the article based on the roads.

Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#47
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you’re accidentally digging backwards to find them. You might be completely right. Though I’m not sure I understand what you mean by digging backwards. The problems I see are, of course, the main problems I’ve personally run into. I have a hard time telling a compelling story to someone who doesn’t know anything about computers or math. When I look around, I can see that many other people have the same prob…

> Just curious - have you actually tried selling art? Indeed. But I understand what you're seeing in my comment. As a restatement: your art's marketability is firstly dependent on your style/genre/technique being in fashion. Generative art is a curiosity, but still isn't in fashion. You and I are probably not the ones to bring it into fashion; that'll happen when/if somebody well-connected pitches their work's story…

Hey, thanks for taking the time to clarify!

> I guess what I'm saying is that being an experimental/emerging artist sometimes runs orthogonal to creating a market for our art.

Yes, I agree completely. I see your point more clearly that aside from value & narrative, there needs to be an environment that already supports generative art, both for its value and its narrative. This is what you meant about community, I misunderstood. You are right.

I think we're getting there, I'm fairly optimistic here. It seems like generative art is considered fine art by enough people that there's no longer a debate about whether it's art. Now we just need to wait and watch the best stuff bubble up.

Re: Why Love Generative Art?

#49

Can anyone recommend tools for getting into generative art? I have tried using a gamedev engine. It worked OK, but there have got to be better suited tools out there.

Processing is the most popular among artists, and so it has the most artistic tools ready to just drop in and use. If you want to focus on the art-making, it's your best choice until you feel you've outgrown it. You can just jump straight into brushing and blitting and blending and whatever without having to scour GitHub or craft something yourself from bare metal. The only caveat is that if you're coming from a prog…

If you like the concepts of Processing but want more out of the language, you might be interested in Quil[0], which is a Clojure (or ClojureScript) wrapper API.

It allows live-coding sketches from Emacs to work really nicely.

[0] https://github.com/quil/quil

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