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‘We’re taking a look’ at whether Google searches should be regulated

washingtonpost.com

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Re: ‘We’re taking a look’ at whether Google searches should be regulated

#11
post #8

The internet exists, is way to big to manually curate, and google is just providing a window into it with algorithmic searches. There is always talk about how google promotes this or that by having this search return X and how they should adjust it. They always "adjust the algorithm" or ban sites from their search results entirely. Google's search is better (I've tired and use others..) and thus it wields enormous po…

The solution is to mandate that Google publicly disclose their algorithms and the various weightings they apply to incentivize behavior and how much of an impact they have. Then everyone can see whether or not their behavior constitutes unfair bias, can test for themselves what's going on.

Google does not need or deserve the ability to keep the way all human knowledge is accessed and found today a trade secret.

Additional notes on this to address the obvious criticisms:

- Google would still have the benefit of it's actual data/crawled content that presumably would not be disclosed and constitutes a significant portion of their business advantages.

- It's unlikely competing search engines would somehow leapfrog Google's technology by having access to their search ranking algorithms. At best copying Google would make them "as good as Google", but you need to be "better than" to get people to switch or offer features and benefits they don't.

- Even if all of Google's data and algorithms were cloned by competitors, everyone would still by and large use Google because Google is the default on almost every platform and browser, and Google has a significant lock-in effect over their platforms.

Which is to say, requiring one of the world's most powerful monopolies to disclose the algorithms by which knowledge is found would have minimal to non-existent impact on their business but have significant benefit to society.

Re: ‘We’re taking a look’ at whether Google searches should be regulated

#12

To me, this is a strong sign of Google manipulating search results. https://www.google.com/search?q=american+inventors https://www.google.com/search?q=american+mathematicians https://www.google.com/search?q=american+scientists Image results: https://www.google.com/search?q=european+art+history&tbm=isc... https://www.google.com/search?q=white+couple&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=white+inventor&tbm=isch

Or it's extremely basic text matching and "African American Inventors" more closely matches "American Inventors" (as it is an exact substring match) than web pages about "Inventors from the United States", which is probably a more common phrasing (see: https://www.google.com/search?q=Inventors+from+the+United+St...)

One of the biggest problems with Google as I see it, and facebook for that matter, is for the end user there isn't much of a way to introspect _why_ a search result comes from a particular query. In this case, you used that lack of information to confirm your own assumptions and bias.

Re: ‘We’re taking a look’ at whether Google searches should be regulated

#13

To me, this is a strong sign of Google manipulating search results. https://www.google.com/search?q=american+inventors https://www.google.com/search?q=american+mathematicians https://www.google.com/search?q=american+scientists Image results: https://www.google.com/search?q=european+art+history&tbm=isc... https://www.google.com/search?q=white+couple&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=white+inventor&tbm=isch

Literally the first result in that search is a far-right, white nationalist blogger alleging Google is manipulating results for that search.

This would seem to both belie the claim that it is manipulating the results -- by virtue of the fact that wouldn't the first thing they manipulate away be this very criticism -- and seriously taint the chain of events that led you to claim that they are.

Re: ‘We’re taking a look’ at whether Google searches should be regulated

#14
post #12

To me, this is a strong sign of Google manipulating search results. https://www.google.com/search?q=american+inventors https://www.google.com/search?q=american+mathematicians https://www.google.com/search?q=american+scientists Image results: https://www.google.com/search?q=european+art+history&tbm=isc... https://www.google.com/search?q=white+couple&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=white+inventor&tbm=isch

Or it's extremely basic text matching and "African American Inventors" more closely matches "American Inventors" (as it is an exact substring match) than web pages about "Inventors from the United States", which is probably a more common phrasing (see: https://www.google.com/search?q=Inventors+from+the+United+St... ) One of the biggest problems with Google as I see it, and facebook for that matter, is for the end use…

I think OPs point is somewhat corroborated by the choices of Google Doodle, both in who they select and who they omit.

Re: ‘We’re taking a look’ at whether Google searches should be regulated

#15
post #12

To me, this is a strong sign of Google manipulating search results. https://www.google.com/search?q=american+inventors https://www.google.com/search?q=american+mathematicians https://www.google.com/search?q=american+scientists Image results: https://www.google.com/search?q=european+art+history&tbm=isc... https://www.google.com/search?q=white+couple&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=white+inventor&tbm=isch

Or it's extremely basic text matching and "African American Inventors" more closely matches "American Inventors" (as it is an exact substring match) than web pages about "Inventors from the United States", which is probably a more common phrasing (see: https://www.google.com/search?q=Inventors+from+the+United+St... ) One of the biggest problems with Google as I see it, and facebook for that matter, is for the end use…

I'd assume the greatest search engineers in the world would know how to distinguish people searching between the two phrases.

Re: ‘We’re taking a look’ at whether Google searches should be regulated

#16
post #5

It is worth noting that often conservative and liberal Americans believe they have a point of disagreement as to whether regulations on corporations are a good or bad thing, in general. But really they do not disagree on this point. Only the minor details of what those regulations should be exactly.

I don't agree with this statement. Yes, both conservatives and liberals believe there is an amount of regulation that is acceptable. Conservatives typically aren't anarchists. Liberals typically aren't full-socialists. The disagreement is the amount of regulation, and where to draw the line. Though this is the idealized version of reality. In actuality, there are of course a host of political reasons conservatives ma…

>The disagreement is the amount of regulation, and where to draw the line.

It is not clear to me that there is any disagreement on the amount. I know that the conservative claim is that they want less regulation but how do you measure that?

There are a host of things conservative policitians seek to regulate that liberal ones tend not to. There are even huge socialist programs that conservative politicians support more than liberal ones (like the military)

Re: ‘We’re taking a look’ at whether Google searches should be regulated

#17
post #8

The internet exists, is way to big to manually curate, and google is just providing a window into it with algorithmic searches. There is always talk about how google promotes this or that by having this search return X and how they should adjust it. They always "adjust the algorithm" or ban sites from their search results entirely. Google's search is better (I've tired and use others..) and thus it wields enormous po…

> Good luck with that.

The US government is able to enforce sanctions on other governments, crushing their economies and major businesses. It's able to acquire private property and businesses through eminent domain. "Good luck with that" is a bit shortsighted. The tools exist for the US to exert these forces, and they have been used successfully.

Re: ‘We’re taking a look’ at whether Google searches should be regulated

#18
Before he was president or even running for office he'd call into a fox news show and say something stupid and other news outlets would pick it up and I remember being annoyed and thinking "why is this news?!" now he's president and everything he says is news and it hurts my soul.

Anyway we live in a free country and the government can't dictate what kind of news a search engine should surface.

It's ironic though that newspapers are actually entertaining this nonsense and not outright debunking the notion and highlighting how dangerous it is.

Re: ‘We’re taking a look’ at whether Google searches should be regulated

#19

To me, this is a strong sign of Google manipulating search results. https://www.google.com/search?q=american+inventors https://www.google.com/search?q=american+mathematicians https://www.google.com/search?q=american+scientists Image results: https://www.google.com/search?q=european+art+history&tbm=isc... https://www.google.com/search?q=white+couple&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=white+inventor&tbm=isch

Could be a bug. If you look at wikipedia for a category american inventors

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_inventors

There is a sub category called "African American inventors". Since the sub category also match the search terms, it is possible that for some reason they are displayed in priority.

edit : the post of econ4all about "us+inventor" tend to confirm that it is an issue with "american" being part of "african american"

Re: ‘We’re taking a look’ at whether Google searches should be regulated

#20
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with this statement. Yes, both conservatives and liberals believe there is an amount of regulation that is acceptable. Conservatives typically aren't anarchists. Liberals typically aren't full-socialists. The disagreement is the amount of regulation, and where to draw the line. Though this is the idealized version of reality. In actuality, there are of course a host of political reasons conservatives ma…

The current bipartisan issue is that the line is invisible and therefore impossible to regulate. Of course, Google has a trade secrets case for the line being invisible. The government makes Coke list the ingredients and nutrition facts, but doesn't make them reveal the secret formula. Maybe there's a similar way to regulate Search?

Why regulate search at all? A soon as you think Google is not giving you good search results you can hop on over to Bing or a host of other options. The free market works very well here. As opposed to the issue of net neutrality, where very many Americans have no ISP they can switch to if they are not happy with the throttling their ISP is doing. Said throttling could also be used to silence or slow conservative news and ideas.
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