What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD • Hacker News Board

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#151

Post by bbgm » Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 12:57 PM UTC

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #62

I have a PhD in aerospace engineering. I loved grad school. Loved loved loved it. I wouldn't give up the worst day I had in grad school for almost anything. And I love having the skills it taught me. I am a much better engineer and researcher than I could possibly have been had I taken almost any other route. I was given freedom in grad school that just would not have been present in most industry jobs. I was given a…

I echo everything said above. Mine was in theoretical chemistry/biophysics. I was also married through most of grad school, which was a big reason I chose not to do a postdoc (the norm in my area) and joined a startup instead. I was lucky that I was able to do that.

If I had to do it all over again, I would.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#152

Post by bitxbit » Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 1:08 PM UTC

I am sure I am in the minority here but I believe there are way too many people getting PhDs just to get a job. I am not blaming the candidates/graduates because that's what the job market requires these days but there is something seriously wrong with that picture. It takes a lot of public capital and goodwill to support PhD programs and in many aspects PhDs have become glorified professional degrees. I also see a lot of half-baked thesis that would not have passed muster two decades ago but advisors are more interested in building his/her brand within public and private domains.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#153

Post by azhenley » Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 1:36 PM UTC

peterlk wrote: post #109

I was once told by a professor who I respected very much how he gives advice to prospective PhDs. When someone asks "should I get my PhD?" the answer is always "no". Because the only people who will enjoy grad school are the ones who will do it anyways. I have found this to be good advice for people who are thinking of starting companies too.

This advice definitely rings true.

However, I can't help but think that this mentality does scare away certain personality types that would otherwise make for great researchers. I fall into the category of people who ignored advice and did it anyway, but I try to be welcoming to other types too.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#154

Post by pimmen » Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 1:38 PM UTC

I have a colleague who is an ML PhD student part time and works as an engineer part time, but his research (NLP with a focus on text classification) aligns well with his job such that the company supports him writing on his thesis and going on conferences on company time. He's doing a presentation in two weeks about a paper he's written, on company time.

I have no idea how have managed to swing that, and if this arrangement will last for long. He's only been employed here for about a year.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#155

Post by keeptrying » Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 1:38 PM UTC

Having seen what a PhD did to the mental health of a lot of my friends, I would heavily advice people considering one to figure out how they’ll mentally cope.

Have a plan and resources commited to how you’ll deal with the depression. This means actually building out a support network and asking them if they’d be available to talk during such a situation.

Not easy but yeah weigh the cognitive costs!

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#156

Post by grigjd3 » Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

sytelus wrote: post #71

This is quite an unfortunate article. Author goes on to list several folks who don’t have PhD but have “made it” and asserts that many people can do fascinating and cutting-edge work without PhDs. There are always outliers in stuff like this but ask yourself: How many people you know who don’t have PhD and have freedom to explore at work full time what truely interests them? Author has rather twisted view of the sele…

I have a PhD, worked as a post doc and found I never had the freedom at work to explore full time what truly interests me. I had to spend a significant portion of my time seeking funding or jobs. I had to work on what my advisor wanted me working on. A job focused on teaching college level physics, which is what I got into it to do, seemed to stretch further and further away as I moved forward. That said, I'm still glad I got a PhD. I just think your experience might be a bit closer to the ideal than what many experience.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#157

Post by sandwall » Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 2:15 PM UTC

PhD in Nuclear Engineering (Medical Physics) -- I wouldn't trade my years of study (play) for anything. I was blessed with a wonderful committee chair (and great committee members! beware! choose wisely, these people can make or break you!) who allowed his students time and space to reach _Intellectual Maturity_ -- This is when a student should graduate, not after x publications or after y objectives.

A Doctor of Philosophy should be an individual capable of critical thinking, developing their own experimental process, and helping others do the same. Unfortunately, many professors are just running a race chasing publications and grants while their students are employees, not apprentices in the art and practice of science.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#158

Post by earthscienceman » Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #62

I have a PhD in aerospace engineering. I loved grad school. Loved loved loved it. I wouldn't give up the worst day I had in grad school for almost anything. And I love having the skills it taught me. I am a much better engineer and researcher than I could possibly have been had I taken almost any other route. I was given freedom in grad school that just would not have been present in most industry jobs. I was given a…

This might be the most accurate description of grad school I've ever read. It's almost too poignant. It's this balance between freedom and toxicity that makes graduate school such a polarizing experience.

Recovering from a difficult graduate school experience, like the one you perfectly described, is insanely difficult. Financially, emotionally, and temporally.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#159

Post by bane » Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 2:25 PM UTC

Something that I've found deeply troubling with the PhD education and training and how it interfaces in industry, having worked with a very large number of PhDs over the years, is the seeming inability for PhD-level staff to simply edit their work and ship things on time.

I know this is a large generalization, but I could comfortably say this is a predominant trait among maybe 70-80% of the folks I've worked with. On the surface it seems like there's something in the training for PhD staff that seems to kill the ability to self-regulate that's a very good thing when pursuing the unknown, but an excruciating pattern to deal with in industry where budgets and shipping times are primary importance.

Seeing this in action, and knowing I have no interest in working in academia, has been the primary reason I haven't pursued one myself. I don't want to be "broken" by training.

I get to pursue all of the R&D I can handle already working in an R&D lab -- with the usual publication, patent, ship to customers that it all entails. So I'm not starving for interesting things to pursue.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#160

Post by telchar » Tue, Aug 28, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #144

russfink wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't agree with this enough. And, in industry, in a truly toxic culture, Human Resources ironically supports and defends the very toxicity that it's designed to protect employees from. "Oh, you went to HR, huh? So you think you're better than us?" Or "Let's have a one-on-one sit-down with your boss, and air our grievances," Or, "hey, there's this great new job opening up in our branch." Even promotions in a toxic…

"Human Resources ironically supports and defends the very toxicity that it's designed to protect employees from" The main function of HR is not to serve employees. The main function of HR is to protect the employer from legal liabilities. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Corporate-Confidential-Secrets-Compan...

This is offtopic, but I have to point out that these sort of cynical pronouncements are somewhat dangerous. You are probably coming from a good place and trying to warn people about being too trusting, but I see a risk in these sort of statements in making younger readers believe that this is a normative statement (as opposed to the positive sense I think you meant it in). Ideally HR does have something to offer the employee, balancing their interest with the company's. Let's not retreat entirely from that ideal.