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What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

fast.ai

141–150 of 195 posts

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#141
post #83

Part I. I'll try to give an answer and a response more generally to the material in the OP. Background. I got a BS in pure math with nearly a second major in physics and worked in computing and applied math for problems in US national security around DC. Jobs were very easy to get; at one time my annual salary was 6 times what a new high end Camaro cost; much of the work was challenging for both the computing and the…

> Ph.D. dissertation may be something like "An original contribution to knowledge worthy of publication."

So true - now most students are happy with, "I came into the office every [most] days and did [the thing]. I wrote it up so where's my PhD."

They don't evaluate their own data critically for interesting information - they did the experiment or simulation as told and they think this is their job.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#142

I have a PhD in aerospace engineering. I loved grad school. Loved loved loved it. I wouldn't give up the worst day I had in grad school for almost anything. And I love having the skills it taught me. I am a much better engineer and researcher than I could possibly have been had I taken almost any other route. I was given freedom in grad school that just would not have been present in most industry jobs. I was given a…

I can't agree with this enough. And, in industry, in a truly toxic culture, Human Resources ironically supports and defends the very toxicity that it's designed to protect employees from. "Oh, you went to HR, huh? So you think you're better than us?" Or "Let's have a one-on-one sit-down with your boss, and air our grievances," Or, "hey, there's this great new job opening up in our branch." Even promotions in a toxic culture can end up taking the course of, "oh, you want to be promoted, and you're in a technical role? That's nice and all, but we really value line management employees." My point is, things can be equally bad in industry.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#143

This is a rather narrow perspective focused on (and giving examples from) one subfield (deep learning) at one point of time (year 2018). Have factors like (i) commoditization of software + hardware, (ii) the limited mathematics required, (iii) many open problems, and (iv) a lot of industry funding made a PhD unnecessary for doing research in deep learning in year 2018?: Yes. But does this mean that a PhD (with severa…

Also, this field is quite easy to get into without any external support. You can become an expert in deep learning with a laptop and an internet connection. Most research fields will require a well equipped lab. You can usually find good labs in industry, but you won't have the same freedom to play with all those toys as you will have when pursuing a PhD.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#144

I have a PhD in aerospace engineering. I loved grad school. Loved loved loved it. I wouldn't give up the worst day I had in grad school for almost anything. And I love having the skills it taught me. I am a much better engineer and researcher than I could possibly have been had I taken almost any other route. I was given freedom in grad school that just would not have been present in most industry jobs. I was given a…

I can't agree with this enough. And, in industry, in a truly toxic culture, Human Resources ironically supports and defends the very toxicity that it's designed to protect employees from. "Oh, you went to HR, huh? So you think you're better than us?" Or "Let's have a one-on-one sit-down with your boss, and air our grievances," Or, "hey, there's this great new job opening up in our branch." Even promotions in a toxic…

"Human Resources ironically supports and defends the very toxicity that it's designed to protect employees from"

The main function of HR is not to serve employees. The main function of HR is to protect the employer from legal liabilities.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Corporate-Confidential-Secrets-Compan...

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#145
Am I the only one that finds it questionable to write this kind of "career advice", when the author clearly has a conflict of interest?

The author is running a business whose main purpose is to sell educational content marketed towards people that want to learn Machine Learning (and claiming you don't need a PhD to do it).

I only have a good impression of fast.ai, but perhaps the author is not in the best position to give career advice on this topic? The author didn't even do a PhD in ML/CS, but in mathematics which arguably less applied/practical.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#146

Don't do a PhD for the money (although it is more than adequate in STEM fields). Do a PhD for the jobs that it unlocks (professor or researcher, mostly) or the type of freedom that it provides (it was 6 years of mostly unstructured time that I got to explore things that interested me while being paid). If all else fails, you can still go join a big tech company and make more than enough money to live a good life. I'm…

I'm envious of that. I went through a master's program and I sorely miss that unstructured time to research and genuinely explore a topic. All of the learning I do these days is by force of business. I'm OK with that but it would be cool to get back to learning sometimes. Could you talk about what life is like as a professor? I looked at your research interests and they lean heavily on the applicable-to-industry side…

Thanks for the kind words! My research interests are definitely on the applied side on purpose. Some of the major criticism of research is that it is too theoretical or doesn't help people, so I wanted to do the opposite. I study actual engineers and the problems they face while working. This was actually my interest long before grad school. I wanted to make tools, plugins, and languages that were easier for me to use. Being very applied has worked out well for me so far since many people can relate to what I do!

I am a new professor but I can give you a short summary of what it is like. It is very unstructured. No one tells me how to spend my time, but I have to balance many different things: teaching a course, working on multiple research projects, writing multiple papers, writing grant proposals, reviewing papers for journals/conferences, traveling to conferences, recruiting and working with student researchers, etc. Some people like to describe it like running a startup.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#147

Am I the only one that finds it questionable to write this kind of "career advice", when the author clearly has a conflict of interest? The author is running a business whose main purpose is to sell educational content marketed towards people that want to learn Machine Learning (and claiming you don't need a PhD to do it). I only have a good impression of fast.ai, but perhaps the author is not in the best position to…

There is an obvious conflict of interest but it doesnt make his views invalid. Several other PhDs have said pretty much the same thing. Frankly, I dont see much more utility for working in industry beyond a Masters. You really should have the skills to learn anything else by the time you complete a thesis.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#149

I have a PhD in aerospace engineering. I loved grad school. Loved loved loved it. I wouldn't give up the worst day I had in grad school for almost anything. And I love having the skills it taught me. I am a much better engineer and researcher than I could possibly have been had I taken almost any other route. I was given freedom in grad school that just would not have been present in most industry jobs. I was given a…

I second (by now probably seventh or eight) most of your post: I loved most of my time in my Math PhD program.

> A toxic graduate school environment is worse than most toxic work environments

I agree with this 100%. I would even extend this to overall academia pre-tenure (and maybe tenure as well). Moving to a different employer is usually easy and non-traumatic; in PhD program you are stuck -- leaving will mean abandoning your half-written thesis and starting from scratch, etc. Thus it is critical to avoid bad programs, either with a toxic environment or those that treat grad students as long term slaves.

> A lot of places aren't (expand) ... with vast majority of smart and good people. ... You can be worked 100 hours a week. You can be blackballed for getting sick, for taking vacations, for taking maternity or paternity leave

With this I disagree. I had friends in many schools and while there were a few exceptions by and large the environment was very good: supportive and enabling without kid gloves. I was on the theory side, which surely made things easier (no expensive hardware or purchases to pay for), but I basically wasted third year of 5 of my PhD on aimless wandering: I could get no traction on any problem, would try something and drop it at the first challenge, etc. And I heard no complaints from my adviser -- he was checking in, asking if I want feedback or suggestions on problems to look at, but otherwise let me be. No 100 hour weeks, etc. I knew he was not thrilled, but he let that disease (or growth) run its course.

I much later spoke to other folks doing theoretical PhDs and found that this is not that uncommon: transition from doing great in classes (learning along an externally designed sequence) to planning and doing your own research may not go smoothly.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#150

I was once told by a professor who I respected very much how he gives advice to prospective PhDs. When someone asks "should I get my PhD?" the answer is always "no". Because the only people who will enjoy grad school are the ones who will do it anyways. I have found this to be good advice for people who are thinking of starting companies too.

My answer is always "no" as well - for many of the reasons outlined in this essay. But really, most of the students who have asked me this question just want someone to say "yes" and don't end up listening to my reasons for "no" anyway.
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