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How Facebook, Apple and Microsoft Are Contributing to OpenStreetMap

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Re: How Facebook, Apple and Microsoft Are Contributing to OpenStreetMap

#101
During a rotational program out of college I was the product manager at Facebook working on maps as the team led up to the first ML contributions to OpenStreetMap (https://2016.stateofthemap.us/how-can-ai-help-us-make-maps/). There's an interesting story about a large mistake I made that is interesting to share:

I started working on this project because I believe that map data should be open as did everyone else on the team. There was (and still is to some extent) a lot of skepticism about whether large corporations have the best interest of the map at heart - and what tools need to be put in place to make sure the quality stays high. It's pretty clear to me that there can be an alignment in goals because whether it's a company, person, or nonprofit everyone prefers accurate map data. The questions are about margins of error & OSM rightfully leans toward only extremely high confidence.

One good thing about Facebook joining in on updating the open map is resources are not much of an issue. Our team was able to just call up and purchase the rights to the satellite images we needed instantly. For quite some time we had working models that generated edits for roads that were missing from the map. Leading up to the yearly conference there was a question of whether we should present all of our findings to the community and see what they thought before making any edits.

No one on the team was willing to push the button on submitting any of our edits because we weren't sure if they were good enough and it would feel shitty to be the one who broke the relationship between Facebook & OSM. Beyond the software engineers even the people who were paid hourly to train the models became invested in believing it was important that Facebook reach a way to channel its massive resources into the project.

Eventually we all gathered up and I just pushed the button to contribute a random 1km / 1km square in Egypt (we'd already computed edits across the country accounting for over 100% increase but things could always get better). Then we waited. No one ever reached out so we started contributing a little more at a steady rate to see if anyone else working in the country noticed (including improving the original 1km / 1km box as the models improved).

We were testing the ML in some of the harshest conditions we could find (low contrast in the desert) so the research team started working on another model for India (winding dirt roads, lots of rivers, tree cover). All of our edits went through street-by-street human approval which was working but slow going since the number of people on the project could fit in a Facebook friend recommendation unit. After not receiving much contact in Egypt (the map community there is small) we received initial positive feedback from local mappers in India and decided to ramp up the speed of contributing which meant getting a war room in Menlo Park and rounding up a larger group of people to review the machine suggested roads.

I ended up gathering a few too many people and myself along with the core team was too hasty in communicating the quality bar for submission. We planned to shadow edits as the week went on to make sure the new members were up to speed but things unfolded much more quickly. Within a few hours we accidentally submitted a few bad roads. A local mapper noticed as he'd just driven the area on his motorcycle the day before. I immediately left a meeting where we were negotiating buying more satellite imagery and jumped on a bike back to the war room. No harm done, we had scripts ready to undo edits.

When I got into the war room things were more problematic. Quite a few of the new folks had made similar mistakes so we paused everything. There was now a small group of local mappers in an IRC channel worried about large scale vandalism (though they quickly realized that wasn't the case). They noticed the breadth of the edits and tracked down the accounts of most everyone in the room. The map community in India is one of the better communities but still a room of this many people making edits at a such a scale was unlike anything you'd normally expect since the ML made editing 10-100x faster than hand tracing imagery.

During the time when the local mappers believed this might be intentional vandalism they escalated to the global community. So that's how a large chunk of the OSM leadership found out Facebook was doing work on the map - some of our worst edits. Shit! It ended up not being so bad however. The entirety of the bad edits were reverted in a few minutes with oversight from the head of the OSM data working group. IMO the situation accidentally showed some of the OSM corporate contribution skeptics that even the worst case wasn't so bad & Facebook was definitely wanting the community in control of any crises.

It wasn't all thought through but it's quite interesting in retrospect how the engagement strategy panned out.

Re: How Facebook, Apple and Microsoft Are Contributing to OpenStreetMap

#102
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least you were given the chance of improving it. You declined to do so, but that's your decision. In a similar situation with Google Maps, you wouldn't even have been given the opportunity.

You can add missing places (including private property) to Google Maps, but I've never had an issue where I needed to do that.

Because everyone implicitly forced for improving the maps via a bullsh*t named captcha.

Re: How Facebook, Apple and Microsoft Are Contributing to OpenStreetMap

#104

Seems like OSM has a future. This is great. Only sad thing is perhaps some day we won't be able to have the fun of making contributions ourselves, if the big companies handle all that for us like Google does. In the mean time, though, I can make an easier case to people as to why they should care about this, since it's now used by Apple and Pokémon Go.

Why wouldn’t it have a future? We use it quite a lot in the European public sector where we can’t use google maps because of privacy issues. We’ve written a small app that does route calculations for us to make reporting business related driving (you get a refund, but that has to be taxed in specific ways) an automated process. We use OSM in that, but we do pay a company to do the routing algorithm and supply the dat…

> The disadvantage of OSM is actually the submission process, like if a street is wrong, and you supply the correct information, it’s not always accepted right away.

In what way does this happen? I haven't experienced it yet and I get the impression my edits are accepted automatically. Is someone reverting your changes with no good justification?

Re: How Facebook, Apple and Microsoft Are Contributing to OpenStreetMap

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Maps beats OSM with absolutely no content in regards to POI data and navigation.

Especially navigation. Google can plan my trip from start to end, perfectly. There's not a single OSM-based thing that comes even close.

Galileo works pretty well for me, pathfinding and all.

https://galileo-app.com/

Re: How Facebook, Apple and Microsoft Are Contributing to OpenStreetMap

#107
post #2

This is competitive pressures at work, similarly to IBM and other's investment in Linux in the early 2000's as a way to place competitive pressure on MS/Windows. If you're not the leader in the field, and won't be able to catch up just by investing, you try to make the leadership in the field (Google's) irrelevant. If the 2nd-best-by-small-margin base map info is open, having the best one isn't a competitive advantag…

Second best? At least in my experience, OSM data is leaps and bounds better than Google Maps in every way possible, and it has been that way for a couple years now. The reason that I still use Google maps is that it's fast and well-integrated with my phone, and it has a lot of added features on top of the actual mapping that makes it very useful --- things like location sharing when you're on a longer road trip, crea…

As others said, it depends. Here in my city (Lübeck) in Germany, OSM runs circles around GM and then leisurely sprints towards the goal. When I was in South Africa (Pretoria) OSM was so out of date that it was unusable, and that's without information there that's always been wrong.

Re: How Facebook, Apple and Microsoft Are Contributing to OpenStreetMap

#108
post #79
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's open for you to make the changes nessessary. It's only as good as it's editors and there isn't that many that can dedicate a lot of time to mapping. Thank you all that does!

This actually does work. I went though a phase of keen mapping and entered detailed information for my local area, especially for things off road. (Triggered by OSM becoming rubbish when the license changed most of the Australian data was removed.) Consequently for the last 6 years OSM is my fist stop for anything to do with my local area. Hopefully others have seen a benefit too. It's always interesting to see where…

Wait, what happened to Australian data?

Re: How Facebook, Apple and Microsoft Are Contributing to OpenStreetMap

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just 2 of the 3 listed companies are major sponsors of OSM events Don't assume that because a company isn't listed, it doesn't/hasn't contributed.

> Don't assume that because a company isn't listed, it doesn't/hasn't contributed. That is the list of all sponsors for that particular event. Apple did speak at the event, though their talk[0] was the only one not recorded, photos were forbidden, and they uploaded no slides afterward. The topic was their employees' volunteerism. [0] https://2018.stateofthemap.org/2018/T081-Working_with_the_Co...

Yes, I was there. You might remember from the Q&As afterwards that Apple is a corporate member of OSMF but not listed as such, for example. The topic wasn’t principally volunteering, though that was mentioned.

Re: How Facebook, Apple and Microsoft Are Contributing to OpenStreetMap

#110
Yahoo (remember them?) allowed OSMers to use their aerial imagery from 2007 till 2011. Microsoft has allowed OSMers to use Bing aerial since 2010, and to be honest, it's probably been the most beneficial contribution to OSM of the ones in the article.

Also, Apple gave a talk at SotM about "working with the community" and demanded that that talk not be recorded (unlike all other talks thre) or shared with anyone else. Hardly in keeping with the spirit of "openness".

Facebook's computer vision imports are of dubious use.

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