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What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

fast.ai

61–70 of 195 posts

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#61

A PhD is a license to do deep research. Deep research careers are very rare, but for the right kind of person, they're great. However, deep research by definition means it probably won't work, and there's just a lot more money in doing things that will probably work vs things that probably won't. So it helps to be extremely talented at deep research if you want to pursue the PhD. Also, most engineering PhD's are bogu…

Microsoft encourages its research people to help product teams ship things based on their research. I had two interactions with PhD types on two different products.

The first was a researcher who talked to us a few times (just a few hours of meetings) then returned a few months later with a pile of MatLab code and a "problem solved!" attitude -- his simulations showed that things were working great. We looked at the code and while it taught us some things, it was obviously not shippable. None of his stuff wound up in the product, though it did point us down some interesting paths (some good, some bad).

Another researcher got a desk smack in the middle of the product team and spent 18 months sitting with us full-time, porting and dramatically improving his algorithms. I'd say that he learned just as much from us as we learned from him. His first few months were rocky, but he eventually became a productive and supportive member of the team. I hope that MSR treated him well upon his return.

Personally I think that research is great, but it's fantastic if you can occasionally ship your work to real customers.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#62
I have a PhD in aerospace engineering.

I loved grad school. Loved loved loved it. I wouldn't give up the worst day I had in grad school for almost anything. And I love having the skills it taught me. I am a much better engineer and researcher than I could possibly have been had I taken almost any other route. I was given freedom in grad school that just would not have been present in most industry jobs. I was given a hardware project - a submersible robot - that I was completely in charge of on day 1. I had to teach myself machining, how to do electrical and electonicd works, how to do embedded programming, how to tune a PID loop. How to work with other students. How to give a persuasive presentation. How to come uo with my own ideas, how to convince other people that they were worth pursuing, how to quickly become an expert in a topic.

That being said, I am not under any illusions about the financial loss I experienced. I spent ten years making a pauper's wage, when if I had chosen to go into industry I would have been a software engineer... in the Valley... in 1993.

I also was in a remarkable lab in grad school. It made top-ten lists of “coolest college lab”. And that wasn't hype. The caliber of student and of professor was off the charts. And they were not only smart, the vast majority of them were good people. A lot of places aren't like that. And as the srticle correctly said: a toxic graduate school environment is worse than most toxic work environments. In any practical sense, students don't have HR protections. If you can't get your advisor to write you a recommendation, getting into a different program is nearly impossible. You can be worked 100 hours a week. You can be blackballed for getting sick, for taking vacations, for taking maternity or paternity leave (even if it is - and it almost certainly will be - unpaid).

The key is to find an advisor who is doing good work and who is sane and moral. If you can find that you're golden. If you can't you may be completely screwed.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#63

A little disappointed with the one-sided point of view here - the author states "...I deeply admire everyone I’ve listed, and I am not arguing that a PhD is never useful or never works out well" but never really gives examples of skills that PhDs do provide. And there are absolutely career paths where a PhD is not required, but since many of the practitioners have one, can often be selected for (data science, biotech…

This really depends on the role, the company and the culture. I am arguably the most senior engineer where I work (out of over 500 engineers) and I don’t have a college degree. We have many PhDs on staff. What matters at many companies and in many roles are results.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#64
post #2

I have several questions regarding this: 1) Do FAANG companies hire non-PhDs for machine learning positions? Most seem to require a MS or PhD 2) What are the interview questions like at FAANG companies for machine learning positions? Is the interview different if you don't have a PhD? 3) For non-PhDs applying, what are the math requirements for the job? 4) For people that have a PhD working in ML at a FAANG, do you f…

I'd like to know a variation on this: > 4) For people that have a PhD working in ML at a FAANG, do you feel like you use your PhD level skills day-to-day? 5) For people who work with a mix of PhDs and non-PhDs in the same field, do you notice a difference in output quality?

5) For people who work with a mix of PhDs and non-PhDs in the same field, do you notice a difference in output quality?

No, individual differences outweigh any pattern that I've seen.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#65
I am considering doing a Phd in a completely unrelated area when I turn 50 (45 now).

Is there anyone in this thread done a phd that late? Obviously my motivation is different now to study - to really learn the subject. I am financially self sufficient and will continue to be, and hence making a living out of my phd is not a consideration.

Edit: I would like to be able to study in a university setup (not distance education). Main reason is to soak in all the related conversations / workshops and also I like being in a young environment.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#66
post #65

I am considering doing a Phd in a completely unrelated area when I turn 50 (45 now). Is there anyone in this thread done a phd that late? Obviously my motivation is different now to study - to really learn the subject. I am financially self sufficient and will continue to be, and hence making a living out of my phd is not a consideration. Edit: I would like to be able to study in a university setup (not distance educ…

I’m doing this with my masters right now. Taking distance courses in Operations Research at GA Tech. I’m 36 and have two years of part time grad school to go but it’s been an awesome experience. If it’s for you, im not sure why age matters?

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#68
I often get asked about what my views on doing a PhD are (I am more-or-less finished with one now), and one of the ways I frame it is the following:

You know how you've take a course before where the professor was just surprisingly awful at teaching? These professors are often some of the most knowledgeable people in a subfield of the subject you are taking, yet their teaching ability is severely lacking and you have to scramble to learn the material some other way (or just never learn it).

During a PhD, there is a decent chance that your adviser is similarly a bad manager. Unfortunately, having a bad manager for 5-7 years of your life can be a fairly awful experience. You will work with someone who you, on the one hand, look up to, but on the other hand, who seems to not care at all about your mental health, your possible career desires outside of academia, your work/life balance, or the exact reason why this week was a rough week for research in your (human) life.

I have a lot of other thoughts on the matter, but I thought I'd try to keep this post more concise =).

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#69

I have a PhD in aerospace engineering. I loved grad school. Loved loved loved it. I wouldn't give up the worst day I had in grad school for almost anything. And I love having the skills it taught me. I am a much better engineer and researcher than I could possibly have been had I taken almost any other route. I was given freedom in grad school that just would not have been present in most industry jobs. I was given a…

As a current PhD student in CS -- seconded. I'm fortunate to have a great advisor, and my research career so far has been largely fun and productive as a result. I have also seen equally (or more) talented and hard-working students have worse experiences because of worse advisors. It's just hard to become a good researcher without good mentorship.

As far as practical advice for finding good advisors, track records of previous students can be a helpful first filter once you've made a list of people who wrote papers you like. Probably the most helpful thing is talking to current students at the admitted students day and listening to them. Bad advisors usually have at least one notable case, and there will probably be at least one person who'll take you aside and tell you about it. Listen to them carefully. Even great advisors can have at least one unsuccessful and bitter student through no fault of their own...but they usually don't show up to the admitted student events unless there's a real cause for animus.

Re: What You Need to Know Before Considering a PhD

#70
First principles of doing a PhD and taking up an industrial jobs are quite different, which this article sidesteps. I am talking from the perspective of someone who did a PhD, postdoc and migrated to be a founder/CEO.

A PhD system trains you to think about unsolved problems in an given domain deeply with a larger time runway. The end goal is not a tangible product that reaches millions of people, but rather a set of ideas that can take a crack at the unsolved problems in your field in a novel way. A good work should inspire others in the field, and eventually a larger audience to pick them up and expand and build on top of it. To give a small example, a majority of the fundamentals of machine learning was charted out by many, many PhD works over the last 40 years. Implementing a linear classifier is 2 lines of code in 2018, but many Bothans died to bring us this information :-) .

The goals of industry are more immediate. Expect for a privileged few research labs in industry, your work is expected to be monetized, and rightly so. The goal is for you, if you run the business, else your management team to first figure out a problem of high relevance and monetary value. Build products/solutions for that problem, that can be used by someone who is less versed/ambivalent of your technical solutions. Efficacy of solving that particular problem often defines the merit of your contribution.

The fundamental of choosing the PhD or industry should be taking stock of what kind of contribution you want to make as an individual. If it is a few set of ideas to science, which on a later date might become something fundamental in our understanding of the world, then PhD is a good path. If it is a set of contributions towards a product/solution that eases the pain of many users then go into the industry first.

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