Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem
nytimes.com
Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem
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Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem
#2As someone who also has atypical sleep patterns ( late sleeper, early riser ), there were some interesting points in here.
I know there's been research done as well on the number of hours of sleep required rather than 'when' it occurs, but those haven't seem to have reached a consensus yet.
I will say some of these articles sometimes read satirically. Notably, they have a diagnosis for people who can't sleep at 'normal' hours: Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome. Then the kicker at the end, "The term “chronotype diversity” is starting to find traction, as business managers explore concepts like team energetic asynchrony". At this point, I stopped and looked up at the URL to make sure I wasn't on a parody site.
But all joking aside, it would be interesting to explore what societal as well as productivity improvements could be had if people's sleep patterns were viewed as varied rather than forcing everyone on the same schedule.
Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem
#3As someone who also has atypical sleep patterns ( late sleeper, early riser ), there were some interesting points in here. I know there's been research done as well on the number of hours of sleep required rather than 'when' it occurs, but those haven't seem to have reached a consensus yet. I will say some of these articles sometimes read satirically. Notably, they have a diagnosis for people who can't sleep at 'norm…
Yeah, I'm suspicious of putting people into big buckets based on an easily observable characteristic. I think it erases useful complexity.
Personally, I shifted from being a night owl to an early riser years ago. I think it had a lot to do with a complex series of changes I made in my life. Trying to force it by just changing my wake time wouldn't have done anything good, but improving other things eventually resulted in a mode of life I like more that happens to be early rising.
Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem
#4As someone who also has atypical sleep patterns ( late sleeper, early riser ), there were some interesting points in here. I know there's been research done as well on the number of hours of sleep required rather than 'when' it occurs, but those haven't seem to have reached a consensus yet. I will say some of these articles sometimes read satirically. Notably, they have a diagnosis for people who can't sleep at 'norm…
I also get a little eye-rolly when they went into the whole "we see things differently" bit. The whole "I'm so special and unique thing" just grates after a while. If you're like roughly 30% of the population, that whole "seeing things differently" means you see things like 30% of the population. Which ain't too shabby.
Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem
#5As someone who also has atypical sleep patterns ( late sleeper, early riser ), there were some interesting points in here. I know there's been research done as well on the number of hours of sleep required rather than 'when' it occurs, but those haven't seem to have reached a consensus yet. I will say some of these articles sometimes read satirically. Notably, they have a diagnosis for people who can't sleep at 'norm…
Yeah, I'm suspicious of putting people into big buckets based on an easily observable characteristic. I think it erases useful complexity. Personally, I shifted from being a night owl to an early riser years ago. I think it had a lot to do with a complex series of changes I made in my life. Trying to force it by just changing my wake time wouldn't have done anything good, but improving other things eventually resulte…
Is that complex series something you'd care to elaborate on? I'm sure I'm not alone in trying to understand what really makes us sleep the way we do, and every data point helps!
Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem
#6This feels like this article was written in response to this article from Slate Star Codex since this also mentions DSPS:
http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-tha...
> I have it fairly bad. My body naturally wants to go to bed around 2 a.m. and rise around 10 a.m.
That was my cycle as well and I wouldn't describe it as "fairly bad" it's definitely later but not egregious.
The SSC article recommends .3mg melatonin 7 hours before desired sleep and it worked like a charm for me (along with rituals for earlier sleep and better sleep hygiene).
Within a few weeks I was going to bed at 10pm and naturally waking up at around 7am. Now I regularly operate on this schedule and I was kind of surprised at how quickly I was able to adjust.
Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem
#7Based on the title, I was hoping it was about something else, something I talk about frequently with people who think they have sleep problems: human sleep is naturally biphasic.
I know a lot of people who think waking up in the middle of the night means they have a disease, insomnia. When the truth is that before electric light, normal sleep was going to bed when it got dark, being awake for a while in the middle of the night, and then sleeping more until first light. A nice look at it is in this history podcast: https://www.backstoryradio.org/shows/on-the-clock-4/
(Especially the segments "Friday Night Lights" and "'Til Morning is Nigh".)
For those who prefer text, here's a writeup of the historian's book: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783
When I mention people to this they're generally both shocked and relieved. The problem often wasn't with their bodies or their minds, but their expectations.
Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem
#8This feels like this article was written in response to this article from Slate Star Codex since this also mentions DSPS: http://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-tha... > I have it fairly bad. My body naturally wants to go to bed around 2 a.m. and rise around 10 a.m. That was my cycle as well and I wouldn't describe it as "fairly bad" it's definitely later but not egregious. The SSC article recommend…
Did you need to use melatonin only for those few weeks that it took to adjust your schedule, or have you had to continue using it indefinitely to maintain this schedule?
Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I'm suspicious of putting people into big buckets based on an easily observable characteristic. I think it erases useful complexity. Personally, I shifted from being a night owl to an early riser years ago. I think it had a lot to do with a complex series of changes I made in my life. Trying to force it by just changing my wake time wouldn't have done anything good, but improving other things eventually resulte…
Is that complex series something you'd care to elaborate on? I'm sure I'm not alone in trying to understand what really makes us sleep the way we do, and every data point helps!
It was a bunch of stuff. One strand was about me recognizing that my baseline level of stress and anxiety was too high and working to lower that. Another was about improving sleep quality, so I was sharper during the day. A third was recognizing that I was an irresponsible electric light user; I automated my home lights to follow a consistent day-night cycle. [1] And a fourth was around physical exercise; over a few years I went from the stereotypical hates-exercise guy to somebody who regularly runs races.
And possibly related, of course, was that I got older during this period.
Re: Maybe Your Sleep Problem Isn’t a Problem
#10So little research, so many anecdotes. There are MDS and scientists dealing with these issues. The trouble is not so much when you sleep, but whether you're well in the end. And as someone mentioned, our sleep cycles used to be vastly different. Not to mention that people who take a nap during the day might have a completely different type of sleep cycle.