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John McCain has died

nytimes.com

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Re: John McCain has died

#221

Post by ruskerdax »

rpiguy wrote: post #130
ruskerdax wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if hackers are known for anything, it's being big fans of statesmen, especially ones that approved the PATRIOT Act (twice), extending its wiretapping provisions, and sponsoring a bill that would let the US government detain anyone in the world indefinitely without trial. Truly a sad day.

Agree Hacker News really isn’t an appropriate name for this forum anymore, but that is a topic that deserves its own thread. On topic, loss is sad when anyone dies, even if they hold views you find abhorent. They leave behind friends and family and remind us of our own mortality and the one thing we all have in common (finite existence).

Ascribe whatever personal significance to the death of a famous person you wish. McCain's "views" and career as a statesman have little relevance to hackers and hacking except where he personally acted in ways which affect hackers and technology they use. This is the basis on which I commented.

Re: John McCain has died

#222

Post by qubax »

tzs wrote: post #37

The comment section on the story about this on Foxnew.com [1] is eye-opening. At the moment it is about 1/3 celebrating his death and complaining that he was really a RINO or closet liberal, 1/3 not commenting on his death but complaining about the RINO/closet liberal stuff, and 1/3 expressing sorrow at his death. [1] http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/25/john-mccain-dead-... Addendum: the comments section seems…

That's not surprising considering McCain wasn't much like by many people.

You are forgetting that the Bush republicans hated mccain and one of the most toxic republican campaigns was in 2000 between Bush and McCain.

The 2000 toxicity was superceded by the 2008 Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin election. Now that was a vicious campaign. McCain and Palin was attacked mercilessly by the media, the democrats, social media and even some republicans. The same celebrities who are praising mccain today were the same ones calling mccain a racist and all kinds of awful names in 2008.

If you are young, you probably don't remember any of it. But the 2008 was the first "social media" election and nobody got more hate than mccain. It's so strange to see social media and the media praising mccain. It was something unthinkable 10 years ago. It would be like CNN praising Trump in 2028 or Trump praising CNN in 2028. That's how toxic the 2008 environment got. I'd say it was worse than the 2016 election. To me the 2016 was more cartoonish than vicious.

Anyone else feel like 2008 was a lifetime ago? It's only been 10 years, but at the same time it seems like an eternity ago.

> Addendum: the comments section seems to have been removed from that story.

The same thing is being done all over social media too. Though I'm against censorship ( especially of political figures ), I guess it is understandable. The guy just died. Not sure what kind of precedent it sets to scrub the internet of speech against a politician though.

Re: John McCain has died

#223

Post by mnm1 »

myrandomcomment wrote: post #219
mnm1 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing respectable or heroic about any war. The longer we keep pushing this narrative about soldiers being heroes, the longer we get stuck in this mentality that it's somehow justified or reasonable to start wars, of which we have started so many it's almost impossible to count at this point. Despite his experiences in war and being tortured in Vietnam, he still supported torture and other hideous practices.…

So we should have not fought Hitler? Also he did NOT support torture and was an author of a bill that was passed that forbid it. You are idealistic with no understanding of the facts.

He voted for the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and against the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008. At best his record on torture is mixed and clearly despite all his talk against torture and even his sponsoring of one anti torture amendment (McCain Detainee Amendment to the Defense Appropriations bill for 2005) he still supported it later in his career. Those are facts. You haven't provided a single fact in your response, just an insult that alludes to unknown alleged "facts."

McCain was a war hawk who voted for both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars amongst others and constantly supported overthrowing other governments by force. To support a war like Iraq was unconscionable. Everyone knew the allegations that led to to it were bullshit without having any access to classified information. It seems the idea of a hero here in America is one who goes and sends others to die in war for no reason, without thought, without any consideration for the massive loss of human life that entails. These aren't wars of self defense like WWII, to address your question above, they are wars of aggression, hate, cruelty, and racism. Yeah that sure makes a real hero, killing and sending others to kill for a hateful, cruel agenda.

Re: John McCain has died

#224

Post by burfog »

scarface74 wrote: post #206
dragonwriter wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, McCain was very much a Republican by policy positions; sure, he wasn't completely lockstep, but outside of rhetoric he'd usually fall into the standard Republican position in substance. His notable maverick positions weren't mostly in between the typical R & D positions but instead things that were controversial in both parties. Yeah, post-Trump he may seem to have been in the wrong party, but post-Trump even muc…

There are two types of Republicans. There are the standard pro military, pro business, pro sensible immigration, pro trade conservatives. Those are the type that usual rise to prominence nationally. But then you have the Southern Republicans who use to be Democrats before the Civil Rights Era in the 60s - the Confederate Flag waving, “Moral Majority”, hate immigrants, anti-trade populists, who see the world changing…

You've been lied to. Count the party switchers in that time period:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Represen...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Senators...

It's just 2, Strom Thurmond in the senate and Albert Watson in the house. If the "party switch" narrative were correct, you'd expect many more. What is going on here is that nobody wants to own the history of the KKK or voting against civil rights legislation because that is an unelectable position to take in modern America. An effective way to evade this ugly history is to throw it at the opposing party, falsely claiming the illogical idea that the parties just decided to swap sides one day.

Re: John McCain has died

#225

Post by unfunco »

rpiguy wrote: post #214
khazhoux wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> John McCain’s first wife was a model who had a car accident that left her crippled and eroded her good looks. John McCain then cheated on her and then left her, eventually remarrying a younger, very attractive, very heiress. ...and then stayed married for 38 years until his death. Also, he and Carol were married only 2 years before he was shot down and they then spent 6 years apart, and then 6 years together post-…

Yes he waited long enough to ensure a divorce wouldn’t sink his political career, which it could have back in those days...

You know what they say… speak ill of the dead.

You may not have liked McCain politically, but it's probably best to keep quiet about intimate things such as his romantic intentions or past relationships, your comment is sleazy and cheap, and I'm almost certain you're not an authority on those aspects of his life.

Re: John McCain has died

#226

Post by lgregg »

Markoff wrote: post #213
pjscott wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well shit. I wasn't going to celebrate John McCain's funeral, but now I almost have to, after all he did to keep my country peaceful. I'll look him up, and be humbler in judgement from here on out. God damn it. :-(

it's celebrate the right for this in English? it sounds to me like you would be happy he has funeral, there must be better word than "celebrate", isn't?

Celebrate is the right word

Ie Celebrate his life

Re: John McCain has died

#227

Post by DoreenMichele »

Markoff wrote: post #213
pjscott wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well shit. I wasn't going to celebrate John McCain's funeral, but now I almost have to, after all he did to keep my country peaceful. I'll look him up, and be humbler in judgement from here on out. God damn it. :-(

it's celebrate the right for this in English? it sounds to me like you would be happy he has funeral, there must be better word than "celebrate", isn't?

We often celebrate a person's life and accomplishments upon their passing. The exact phrasing of the above is a little odd, but celebrate can be the right expression here without necessarily meaning "I'm so glad they died."

Re: John McCain has died

#228

Post by myrandomcomment »

mnm1 wrote: post #223
myrandomcomment wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we should have not fought Hitler? Also he did NOT support torture and was an author of a bill that was passed that forbid it. You are idealistic with no understanding of the facts.

He voted for the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and against the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008. At best his record on torture is mixed and clearly despite all his talk against torture and even his sponsoring of one anti torture amendment (McCain Detainee Amendment to the Defense Appropriations bill for 2005) he still supported it later in his career. Those are facts. You haven't provided a sing…

"There's nothing respectable or heroic about any war." -mnm1

Yet, you are okay with WII? Which is it? Are the those that fought in a war you agree with not Heroic?

As to the 2nd Iraq war - A large number of good people were mislead by President G.W.Bush. There is no proof that Senator McCain had any knowledge beyond the reset of the members of the Senate. Furthermore I would argue that having fought in a war, having been tortured for 5 years, he more then others would have a very clear understand the consequences and cost of his vote.

All of you arguments deal in absolutes in a world that has way to many shades of grey. Ideally I agree with you - all war is wrong. Unfortunately not everyone in the world shares your view, and there are still bad people. Senator McCain was far from perfect, but is he quite distance from the monster you make him out to be.

Re: John McCain has died

#229

Post by TheCoelacanth »

LanceH wrote: post #175
dopeboy wrote: post #24

I got to live in Iowa in the summer of 2007 for an engineering internship at Rockwell Collins. One bonus of that was getting to go to all the rallies. I went to a McCain rally and an Obama rally. I remember the energy of the room when Obama came in. The crowd was young and loud. Obama got up and gave his usual stump speech and then went around to shake hands. I shook his hand and got a word or two in but I could tell…

I maintain this was a major reason for Bush defeating Kerry. I saw news stories on both of them one night and they were both in jeans. Kerry looked like they were purchased so he could dress down as the people do. The jeans looked like they had never been worn, maybe a dress shirt tucked in. Bush on the other hand was at Camp David casually talking to the press outdoors while his dog happily circled him. It's not rea…

I think Democrats desperately need to admit that charisma is a necessary qualification for a presidential candidate. An un-charismatic candidate is likely going to lose the election, and even if they do win, they will also probably be an ineffective president. A president not only needs to choose the right policies, they need to convince people to go along with them too.

Re: John McCain has died

#230

Post by Jach »

tntn wrote: post #220
Jach wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

McCain himself points that out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg I remember him for that one but also for advocating the permanent military presence, like South Korea, going forward in Iraq. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf7HYoh9YMM I'm somewhat surprised that HN seems to have such a hardon for the man, and every negative comment is being downvoted / flagged. I remember pretty clearly how Obama-obsessed…

> What happened He died, and most people tend to talk only about good stuff out of respect immediately afterward. You don't see people getting up and criticizing the deceased at funerals.

If you didn't respect the person when they were alive, it makes no sense to respect them when they die. A lot of people are happy he's gone. Funerals are only typically attended by people who personally care, so of course you won't hear criticism there; this forum is not a funeral.
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