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The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

nytimes.com

201–210 of 374 posts

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#202
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Michigan. I think they've worked well.

The electorate will do what it wants. If people keep electing terrible reps, term limits don’t stop that, it just stops that one particular bad rep and replaces them with another. Similarly, we have some awesome Michigan House members who would be fantastic again, but they’re term-limited and have to run for something else to continue to serve. It’s sad.

I think there's a strong argument that many representatives don't necessarily start awful, but are driven to awfulness in the pursuit of keeping themselves in office. Like you allude to, most voters are grossly misinformed or vote irrationally. And this irrationality and misinformation is very effectively exploited by special interests and monied groups. Consequently the desires of these special interests and monied groups start to become more important than the interests of society when a politician is primarily concerned about staying in office.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None; absolutely none. Term limits are a terrible idea because to gain experience with politics and credibility within the establishment requires years. Institute term limits lobbyists gain all the power as they are the only ones who have the clout to get legislation passed. You'd need to institute campaign finance reform and ban lobbyists before you could start terms limits. But these are just both band aids on Amer…

I can't express how wrong this response is. Term limits are necessary, there should be no such thing as a "career politician". A politician should be required to have actual skills, and not just a nice smile. Experience with politics is meaningless, there should be NO establishment. It is always the new guy who reveals the truth to the people, which is a good thing. Experience only results in being able to lie to the…

> A good first step would be to get rid of Diane Feinstein.

Father Time is undefeated.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#204

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

If you dont wont to be in debt, dont take the loan. Saying that you not getting your secondary education paid for by somebody else dooms you to a life of serfdom just sounds like you whining

This might be good advice to give to an individual, but it’s a terrible conclusion to draw society-wide. Similar to advice about the dangers of drug use, casual sex, driving without a seat belt, or the like.

At a system level, we need to consider people’s demonstrated behavior and look at the practical outcomes of various policy interventions, not decide policy based on moral judgments about whether people deserve their misery.

People are strongly pressured into taking these loans, told that they face much worse life prospects without the education than without the debt, and many of them do not have a full understanding of the risks and opportunities involved. Under the circumstances, many are going to take the loans, whether or not they hear your warning.

When they subsequently can’t pay the debt back, it doesn’t really matter for society whether they are “whining” or not. What matters is that the debts hang around their necks like anchors, preventing them from getting on with their lives, depressing their lifetime earnings, keeping them from buying houses or starting families or taking higher paying jobs, etc., and ultimately making them less capable of paying their own medical bills, supporting their own retirements, and so on.

These are large systemic problems which need to be addressed by large systemic changes, not by punishing people for supposed moral failings by forcing them into poverty.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#205

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

> "as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle" I've been watching The Vietnam War documentary. Nothing angers me more than hearing Presidentsspeak about "re-election" in the same sentences as they speak about mass casualty campaigns as if it's one of the primary strategic considerations of a war that kills hundreds of thousands. Politicians who have insulated themselves from the effects…

Large numbers of nuclear weapons means total war between nuclear powers will escalate very quickly to nuclear armageddon. This (MAD) has prevented total war for generations, but has very costly tail risks that people growing up in the post-Cold War era are not likely to appreciate.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#206
post #33

It's a damn shame we've let this crisis reach this scale. Along with healthcare, climate change, the debt, our inauguration, and so on, we've been essentially frozen for most of my life as politicians concern themselves more so with existential power struggle. The right wants to bring us back to the gilded age, the left makes headlines but is barely relevant, and the center is trying to squeeze bandaid solutions whil…

I often wonder how many problems would be fixed by adding a 2 term limit to the House and Senate.

Might want to look at how that has worked at the state level. The state of Michigan has this and it has only exacerbated issues held in check because people had incentives to help people and get re-elected. Michigan now squarely gets its policies from lobbyists and special interest groups because at the end of their terms that is who will hire them.

Term limits do exist and are called elections. Every single election is a chance to vote someone out of office who hasn't done a good job. The thing that has essentially broken elections as term limits is partisan gerrymandering.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#207

It seems like the majority of the commenters here are missing the point. The huge overhang of student loan debt is not a result of kids who go to a four year college, graduate with an unmarketable degree in philosophy, fall on hard times and then default. It's kids who go to barber school (and the like) taking on $30k of debt, then realizing they don't make enough money cutting hair to support themselves, much less p…

Or going to college for a year or two, drop out, and have no degree with $30k debt.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm...housing, healthcare, college, pharma are all heavily regulated and are subsidized by the government in one way or another. All are outpacing inflation by a very significant margin, for dubious gains in utility. Anyone else seeing a trend here?

I'm not understanding your comment. This is the exact same point I was making.

He blames the government for increasing cost.

Re: The Student Debt Problem Is Worse Than We Imagined

#209
"nearly 1.3 million borrowers — were not in default, but were either severely delinquent or not paying their loans."

I wonder what "in default" means if it does not mean "severely delinquent or not paying their loans". I did not see any explanation in the article.

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