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Great Barrier Reef headed for ‘massive death’

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Re: Great Barrier Reef headed for ‘massive death’

#31

Post by joe_the_user »

mirimir wrote: post #25
joe_the_user wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The population of humans is booming. What a shame you had to spoil your otherwise reasonable argument with this canard. In most areas of the global (the Americas, Europe, Asia above India), population is not booming but shrinking. Moreover, the destruction of various sorts we see hardly the result of booming population by itself but massive resource wastage of variety of sorts combined overall short-sightedness. Clim…

Sure, the human population is no longer growing exponentially. But mean resource use and pollution per capita is still growing. During the last century or two, when humanity released all that CO2, less than one billion people were responsible for most of it. And now we have maybe 2-3 billion more who demand such a lifestyle. So anyway, it's not population per se that matters. It's the sum over population times per ca…

Sure, the human population is no longer growing exponentially.

Which is to say it isn't "booming".

But mean resource use and pollution per capita is still growing.

Indeed total resource is huge and massively destructive but that use isn't even happening in any uniform per capita basis but rather some individuals, processes and organizations consume far more than others. Bitcoin for example, air conditioning Dubai for example, etc, etc.

Re: Great Barrier Reef headed for ‘massive death’

#32

Post by adrianN »

ekianjo wrote: post #7
DavidPiper wrote: post #6

We're going on holiday to the Great Barrier Reef in a few months. I think it's quite likely to be the first and last time I see it in any state worth visiting for many years. Irrespective of how successful or unsuccessful the far-rights are in maintaining Australia's CO2 emission levels, I believe it's already too late - we've crossed from 'recovery is possible' to 'rebuilding is the only way' and that will take deca…

As far as I understand it recovery was never possible by the time we realized what was happening. We have no good way to capture CO2 and no actionable way worldwide to reduce CO2 production fast enough. Even if we stopped producing CO2 right now the levels in the atmosphere would still continue to have detrimental effects for dozens of years.

A good chunk of the CO2 we released will only be captured by geological processes that take thousands of years.

Re: Great Barrier Reef headed for ‘massive death’

#33

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

ianai wrote: post #27
ggm wrote: post #11

As a Brisbane resident I've been lucky enough to visit the north central reef twice in the last 30 years. If you are a casual visitor (as I was) the damage is for many people, theoretical because you have no basis to compare, and the reef charter boats go to the best places you can find to see the best diversity. I know it's real. It harder too see and understand it's extent. Also, much tourism runs in the northern-c…

How does visiting help?

Tourism dollars. The pollys would think more about saving it if money was on the line.

And it is a spectacular place to visit.

Re: Great Barrier Reef headed for ‘massive death’

#34

Post by adrianN »

roenxi wrote: post #14
DavidPiper wrote: post #6

We're going on holiday to the Great Barrier Reef in a few months. I think it's quite likely to be the first and last time I see it in any state worth visiting for many years. Irrespective of how successful or unsuccessful the far-rights are in maintaining Australia's CO2 emission levels, I believe it's already too late - we've crossed from 'recovery is possible' to 'rebuilding is the only way' and that will take deca…

The far right have been advocating or at least partial to Nuclear power since as far back as the late Howard government in '07. Cory Bernardi has a bill before the Senate right now titled "Nuclear Fuel Cycle (Facilitation) Bill 2017". France with nuclear remains the first world country with the cheapest, cleanest, and probably safest power. There is no branch of politics committed to "maintaining Australia's CO2 emis…

There is the branch of politics that really likes those coal mining jobs and doesn't want policies that threaten the use of coal.

Re: Great Barrier Reef headed for ‘massive death’

#35

Post by 3rdAccount »

jaytaylor wrote: post #9

Why are those guys in the videos touching and tugging on the coral? Quite certain that's a no-no, and setting a terrible example for others. For reference, see "Coral Etiquette" [0]: Simply touching corals to see what they feel like can cause the death of an entire colony. Oils from your skin can disturb the delicate mucous membranes which protect the animals from disease. [0] https://sailhawaii.com/hawaii-wildlife/c…

Just watched a PBS Nova special on rising CO2 levels and the impact on corral (requires lower acidity). Scientists in that episode removed coral for experiments. They removed a bit in the really high acidity areas. Interesting special, although I think it was from 2013 "lethal seas".

Re: Great Barrier Reef headed for ‘massive death’

#36

Post by thiagocsf »

jaytaylor wrote: post #9

Why are those guys in the videos touching and tugging on the coral? Quite certain that's a no-no, and setting a terrible example for others. For reference, see "Coral Etiquette" [0]: Simply touching corals to see what they feel like can cause the death of an entire colony. Oils from your skin can disturb the delicate mucous membranes which protect the animals from disease. [0] https://sailhawaii.com/hawaii-wildlife/c…

How could something that dies at a mere human touch have survived for so long?

Re: Great Barrier Reef headed for ‘massive death’

#37

Post by beerlord »

jimmcslim wrote: post #3

Well, we’ve just had another “coup” here in Australia... our 6th Prime Minister in 10 years, so yeah there’s definitely a steady hand on the tiller of Australian climate policy...

Australia's climate policy is simply its population policy. The country has hit 25 million people 33 years earlier than planned, due to very high levels of immigration from India and China.

Re: Great Barrier Reef headed for ‘massive death’

#38

Post by mirimir »

joe_the_user wrote: post #31
mirimir wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, the human population is no longer growing exponentially. But mean resource use and pollution per capita is still growing. During the last century or two, when humanity released all that CO2, less than one billion people were responsible for most of it. And now we have maybe 2-3 billion more who demand such a lifestyle. So anyway, it's not population per se that matters. It's the sum over population times per ca…

Sure, the human population is no longer growing exponentially. Which is to say it isn't "booming". But mean resource use and pollution per capita is still growing. Indeed total resource is huge and massively destructive but that use isn't even happening in any uniform per capita basis but rather some individuals, processes and organizations consume far more than others. Bitcoin for example, air conditioning Dubai for…

I didn't argue that resource use and pollution per capita is uniform. It's obviously not.

But damn, just look at the aggregate indicators. CO2 emissions are still growing exponentially. Ecological degradation is increasing exponentially. We're starting to see widespread firestorms across the northern hemisphere.

Re: Great Barrier Reef headed for ‘massive death’

#39

Post by gammateam »

DavidPiper wrote: post #6

We're going on holiday to the Great Barrier Reef in a few months. I think it's quite likely to be the first and last time I see it in any state worth visiting for many years. Irrespective of how successful or unsuccessful the far-rights are in maintaining Australia's CO2 emission levels, I believe it's already too late - we've crossed from 'recovery is possible' to 'rebuilding is the only way' and that will take deca…

Florida used to have substantial reefs. Now there are none and rebuilding efforts have just resulted in piles of tires thrown into the gulf that no fish or polyps give a crap about.

Corals are done. Visit so you can tell your kids you saw them, when you are chaperoning their field trip to the museum of natural history.

Re: Great Barrier Reef headed for ‘massive death’

#40

Post by cam_l »

jimmcslim wrote: post #3

Well, we’ve just had another “coup” here in Australia... our 6th Prime Minister in 10 years, so yeah there’s definitely a steady hand on the tiller of Australian climate policy...

Oh, come on now. The previous prime minister Mal (and current deputy leader Josh) gave the great barrier reef $444m. They are doing their very best to save it.

I mean sure, the charity they gave it to never asked for it, and have only 6 people working for them. And of course they were good friends of the party, ex-exxon, ex-origin (gas fracking), ex-jbp (most corrupt gov in aus history). No oversight, no investigation, no input from the environment minister, just a big lump of cash... "for the reef". But they probably will do something with it.[0]

[0] https://newmatilda.com/2018/08/20/turnbull-govt-implodes-sti...

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