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John McCain has died

nytimes.com

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Re: John McCain has died

#81

America lost a publicly principled man today. RIP sir. As a related meta-analysis of the response to his passing, i am surprised how many comments here include disclaimers to the appreciation offered. "I didn't agree with him but...". Have we become this partisan as a people? Our semi-anonymous respects for the passing of a prominent figure must be disclaimer-ed with political editorials. A worrying trend.

As someone who does agree with a lot of positions McCain represented, I can't blame anyone who feels the need to distance themselves from his political party before paying respects. Some of our key political disputes today aren't good-faith disagreements about policy. They're attacks on peoples' families and livelihoods. And when you attack people personally like that, decency is something that goes out the window: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-BQi0JjY2w.

Re: John McCain has died

#82

John McCain did somethings that I disagree with but the one thing I will always remember is when during the 2008 election there were multiple times during town halls and rallies that people would verbally attack Obama and McCain always shut them down without fail.

I've found 1 clip so far [1]; would you happen to have more? I'd love to be able to refer back to these in the future.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjenjANqAk

Re: John McCain has died

#83
post #70
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is complete conjecture, so grain of salt and all that, but I'm not so sure it says what you think it does about his judgement. He had run before. Honest campaigns, little to no mud slinging, not what you typically see from politicians. He lost. He gave in to the RNC advisors and others around him that time around. Palin obviously turned out to be awful (maybe not strong enough a word) and he didn't care for her…

I remember reading that McCain picked Palin over his handlers’ strong objections. Was it the other way around?

As far as I'm aware, he wanted Lieberman and caved to more conservative members of his party. Wikipedia seems to agree[1]. It does also say that he selected Palin because she appeared to be someone who would bolster his "maverick" image. He later regretted the choice.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_presidential_candidacy_of...

Re: John McCain has died

#84
Just a reminder that McCain advocated for the violent overthrow of multiple other countries. How dignified you sound in a speech doesn't matter when there's the blood of the many on your hands. He reached across the aisle because the Democrats love killing people too. Rep. Barbara Lee was the sole no vote on the AUMF.

For those of you that met him in person and were impressed by his personality, most halfway decent politicians can pull that off, that's how they got elected. His domestic politics were standard conservative fare, and was against raising taxes on the rich to provide for human need. McCain failed us and menaced the world.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/john-mccain-wor...

https://www.liberationnews.org/john-mccain-war-criminal-not-...

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/25/17778146/j...

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/john-mccain-for...

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/...

Re: John McCain has died

#85
post #37

The comment section on the story about this on Foxnew.com [1] is eye-opening. At the moment it is about 1/3 celebrating his death and complaining that he was really a RINO or closet liberal, 1/3 not commenting on his death but complaining about the RINO/closet liberal stuff, and 1/3 expressing sorrow at his death. [1] http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/25/john-mccain-dead-... Addendum: the comments section seems…

Midterm elections are near. The astroturfing is strong. You should believe less than 1/3 of the comments you read are actually genuine.

I hope you are right. I had the chance to read some of it before it was removed. Atrocious.

Re: John McCain has died

#86

"McCain graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1958 and followed his father and grandfather—both four-star admirals—into the U.S. Navy. He became a naval aviator and flew ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers. During the Vietnam War, he was almost killed in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. While McCain was on a bombing mission over Hanoi in October 1967, he was shot down, seriously injured, and capture…

I once described John McCain as an unprincipled torture apologist for his political positions during the Bush administration. I think I was probably mistaken, and I apologize to his ghost.

Re: John McCain has died

#87

America lost a publicly principled man today. RIP sir. As a related meta-analysis of the response to his passing, i am surprised how many comments here include disclaimers to the appreciation offered. "I didn't agree with him but...". Have we become this partisan as a people? Our semi-anonymous respects for the passing of a prominent figure must be disclaimer-ed with political editorials. A worrying trend.

It's easy to say nice things about members of your own tribe. It's easy to overlook the faults of someone on your side. "I didn't agree with him but..." just emphasises the sincerity of your admiration.

Good opponents are the foundation of a strong democracy. You're in real trouble when you honestly struggle to say anything nice about your opponents, or you're too tied up in tribalism to entertain the possibility that your opponents might be decent and principled people who just happen to have different principles. "I don't agree with you, but I respect you as a person" is the essential basis of civilization.

Re: John McCain has died

#88
post #55

John McCain, a hero of a lost war, a senator whose signature law was overturned, a contender in a lost presidential race. For all of his integrity, accomplishment and hard work his life's efforts were largely futile. Except for his family. A more fitting epitaph may be: John McCain, Father, Husband, Son. And that's not bad at all.

> his life's efforts were largely futile

Tell that to the guys he provided close air support for. I've been on the ground when it comes down. Years later I'm still thankful and it brings tears to my eyes.

Re: John McCain has died

#89

"McCain graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1958 and followed his father and grandfather—both four-star admirals—into the U.S. Navy. He became a naval aviator and flew ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers. During the Vietnam War, he was almost killed in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. While McCain was on a bombing mission over Hanoi in October 1967, he was shot down, seriously injured, and capture…

In 1969, as John McCain was strapped into his fueled and armed aircraft, a missile accidentally fired from an aircraft across the carrier. The missile ruptured his aircraft's fuel tank, and wrecked the aircraft next to his. Both aircraft, and all the spilled fuel caught on fire. Both aircraft's bombs, old and with decomposing explosives, began to explode in the fire much sooner than the should have. McCain escaped in…

This story is not supported by the article you posted.

Per the article:

> At about 10:51 (local time) on 29 July, an electrical power surge in the Phantom occurred during the switch from external to internal power. The electrical surge caused one of the four 5-inch Mk-32 Zuni unguided rockets in a pod on external stores station 2 (port inboard station) to fire.

What's interesting is that if you dig into the sources cited, they explicitly call out bullshit like yours:

> In recent years, articles have appeared on the internet that are extremely inaccurate and generally intend to unfairly tarnish the reputation of Senator John S. McCain III, who survived the fire.

From: https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/about-us/l...

What actually happened:

At 1050, Forrestal commenced early launch of two KA-3B tankers, an EA-1, and an E-2A in preparation for an 1100 launch of a 24-plane Alpha Strike, the second of the day. At that time, a VF-11 F-4B (No. 110,) was spotted on the extreme starboard quarter of the flight deck. As the pilot of F-4B 110 shifted from external to internal power, multiple electrical malfunctions ignited one of the four 5-inch Mk-32 Zuni unguided rockets in a pod on external stores station 2 (port inboard station), which fired across the flight deck and struck VF-46 A-4E No. 405, piloted by LCDR Fred White, rupturing its fuel tank, igniting the fuel, and initiating the fire. Although the board of investigation reached the opinion that the Zuni rocket hit 405, there is some ambiguity in eyewitness accounts as to whether the rocket hit 405 or the plane next to it, 416, piloted by Lieutenant Commander John McCain. The rocket itself actually impacted the ocean beyond both aircraft. Regardless, shrapnel ripped into both aircraft, and both were immediately sprayed by fuel; a pool of fuel ignited between and under the two aircraft. Both pilots initially escaped from the flames around their aircraft.

Re: John McCain has died

#90
John McCain dedicated his entire adult life to serving America with dignity, courage and honor. We need more McCains in the world, not fewer. RIP.
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