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Paradise Lost: How Tourists Are Destroying the Places They Love

spiegel.de

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Re: Paradise Lost: How Tourists Are Destroying the Places They Love

#91

Post by sparkling »

Spooky23 wrote: post #54
sparkling wrote: post #24

Recently, in the german edition of the Spiegel, there was a similar column[1] saying there was "something really going wrong" when a flight from Berlin to Cologne costs 15€ while the train ticket for the same destinations costs 120€. The same article said that the flights were "absurdly cheap" and that the budget airlines are "displaying the type of capitalism that is disconnected from reality". Im not joking. The qu…

Cheap airlines are unsustainable and subsidized. I just flew Norwegian from New York to Europe for less than $75. Parking my car at the airport cost more than the flight. That entire airline is some sort of financing scheme and won’t exist in a couple of years.

Out of curiosity: what was the origin and destination airports?

Re: Paradise Lost: How Tourists Are Destroying the Places They Love

#92

Post by wwweston »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #30
sonnyblarney wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"alien, ignorant, greedy for something you cannot ever have" I find this hugely classist. (Edit: and I'm generally not someone to use that terminology) Most (even American) travellers are just trying to see some sights, have a normal and are not particularly rude or problematic. The issue is now that 'everyone' can afford to travel ... it's causing problems. This is a problem of prosperity.

It's the zoo problem all over again. Animal-rights advocates frequently argue, not without some justification, that it's unethical and exploitative to capture wild animals and lock them up in cages so that we can gawk at them. So let's follow their advice in a hypothetical sense and get rid of zoos, circuses, even pet stores. Fast-forward a generation or two and let's imagine how that might turn out. The people from…

> And decrying "mass tourism," as Russell puts it, is nothing but code for "Only a few wealthy people should get to experience this."

"Nothing but" is an incorrect over-reduction. Like any high-volume human activity, mass tourism can have real impacts. Concern over those impacts is likely to exist entirely independently of wealth-favoring classism.

And whether the experience is limited only to the wealthy depends what mechanism is chosen to limit access. If it's determined by pricing mechanisms responding to demand, then, yep, you're going to largely skew access to the wealthy. If it's determined by assessing the number of visitors that won't destroy the experience, and then handing out access via lottery then the criticism loses some of its power.

Re: Paradise Lost: How Tourists Are Destroying the Places They Love

#93

Post by blondie9x »

alkonaut wrote: post #76
blondie9x wrote: post #18

Traveling is overrated. Often times in modern life it feels as thought traveling is a competition rather than for leisure and pleasure. People are often competing to take pictures and say they have been to as many places as possible. Props to travel companies for propagating the travel craze and selling people on the allure of taking pictures and eating food in another spot on Earth. Count the number of people's prof…

It's literally one of the few things that I assign to "meaning" in my life. Seeing the world.

I understand. It is really important to a lot of people. But the world is right there in front of you there is something to be said about appreciating where you are.

Re: Paradise Lost: How Tourists Are Destroying the Places They Love

#94

Post by Fomite »

blondie9x wrote: post #18

Traveling is overrated. Often times in modern life it feels as thought traveling is a competition rather than for leisure and pleasure. People are often competing to take pictures and say they have been to as many places as possible. Props to travel companies for propagating the travel craze and selling people on the allure of taking pictures and eating food in another spot on Earth. Count the number of people's prof…

I love, and enjoy, the place I live in. I'm definitely not "bored".

I still travel.

Re: Paradise Lost: How Tourists Are Destroying the Places They Love

#95

Post by blondie9x »

enraged_camel wrote: post #74
blondie9x wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this can be done via the internet.

You remind me of an old lady I met while living in Southern California. This lady was extremely proud of the fact that she had never set foot outside of California her entire life (by choice, as she was quite wealthy). I asked her about it and she said “Honey, why bother? It’s paradise here. If I ever wonder about life elsewhere, I can read about it or watch a documentary!” I mean, to each his own, but to me it’s the…

Think bigger. Her and you have never set foot outside Earth. What makes California so different from x or y point on Earth? Really think about it deeply.

Re: Paradise Lost: How Tourists Are Destroying the Places They Love

#96

Post by blondie9x »

enraged_camel wrote: post #74
blondie9x wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this can be done via the internet.

You remind me of an old lady I met while living in Southern California. This lady was extremely proud of the fact that she had never set foot outside of California her entire life (by choice, as she was quite wealthy). I asked her about it and she said “Honey, why bother? It’s paradise here. If I ever wonder about life elsewhere, I can read about it or watch a documentary!” I mean, to each his own, but to me it’s the…

Please don't compare reading and writing code or a book for that matter to getting on a plane and staying in a hotel or a apartment.

Re: Paradise Lost: How Tourists Are Destroying the Places They Love

#97

Post by Fomite »

A2017U1 wrote: post #85
blondie9x wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work remote and can travel anywhere anytime so I see it as it is rather than as a fantasy to escape boredom locally.

I work remotely and find it very hard to believe you can go "anywhere anytime". Personal still take leave to go traveling, the infrastructure in most places on Earth is virtually nonexistent. There's a reason you won't find any digital nomads working from beautiful Pacific islands.

Yeah, the infrastructure most places isn't there. I remember recently a HN thread on why one would need a powerful laptop for work, when you should just SSH into a server...

Then I recounted my experience trying to do that from a decent hotel in Lusaka.

Re: Paradise Lost: How Tourists Are Destroying the Places They Love

#98

Post by thr90093290 »

wepple wrote: post #25
blondie9x wrote: post #18

Traveling is overrated. Often times in modern life it feels as thought traveling is a competition rather than for leisure and pleasure. People are often competing to take pictures and say they have been to as many places as possible. Props to travel companies for propagating the travel craze and selling people on the allure of taking pictures and eating food in another spot on Earth. Count the number of people's prof…

I disagree that it’s due to boredom, or that it is overrated. Learning about other cultures and other people’s way of life is incredibly important in an increasingly divided world. I strongly believe that if the average American spent time living with an Islamic family in the Middle East for a week, we might break down a lot of barriers between all the folks that share this rock we live on. It’s another question as t…

> if the average American spent time living with an Islamic family in the Middle East for a week

Or opposite. Dating girl from strict Muslim family was eye opening.

Re: Paradise Lost: How Tourists Are Destroying the Places They Love

#99

Post by Fomite »

blondie9x wrote: post #93
alkonaut wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally one of the few things that I assign to "meaning" in my life. Seeing the world.

I understand. It is really important to a lot of people. But the world is right there in front of you there is something to be said about appreciating where you are.

You're treating these things like they're mutually exclusive. They're not.

Re: Paradise Lost: How Tourists Are Destroying the Places They Love

#100

Post by DoreenMichele »

wepple wrote: post #25
blondie9x wrote: post #18

Traveling is overrated. Often times in modern life it feels as thought traveling is a competition rather than for leisure and pleasure. People are often competing to take pictures and say they have been to as many places as possible. Props to travel companies for propagating the travel craze and selling people on the allure of taking pictures and eating food in another spot on Earth. Count the number of people's prof…

I disagree that it’s due to boredom, or that it is overrated. Learning about other cultures and other people’s way of life is incredibly important in an increasingly divided world. I strongly believe that if the average American spent time living with an Islamic family in the Middle East for a week, we might break down a lot of barriers between all the folks that share this rock we live on. It’s another question as t…

Learning about other cultures and other people’s way of life is incredibly important in an increasingly divided world. I strongly believe that if the average American spent time living with an Islamic family in the Middle East for a week

During the Colonial era, quite a lot of indigenous peoples were wiped out by exposure to new diseases. Last I checked, we still haven't figured out what caused Gulf War Syndrome, much less how to cure it.

I'm convinced that there are a lot more health problems related to traveling and having no understanding of what we are exposing ourselves to than gets recognized, and there are plenty of stories out there of people bringing back horrifying health issues from their honeymoon or whatever. (I'm thinking of some article about some couple that picked up some parasitic worm from walking on the beach. The photos were disturbing.)

And it can be an issue that a local wouldn't have a big problem with. Maybe they have immunity or maybe they know not do X or whatever.

I don't want to shut travel down entirely, but I think ideas like yours contain very, very large blind spots.

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