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Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

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Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#71

Post by bmiller2 »

ddevault wrote: post #11

I used to work at SpaceX on the team that did a piece of software called "WarpDrive". It was a massive monolithic ASP.NET application, with large swaths done with ASP.NET WebForms and a slow frontier of ASP.NET MVC gradually growing when I was working there. This application was responsible for practically everything that ran the factory: inventory, supply chain management, cost analysis, etc. Elon is a big Windows f…

I used to work at SpaceX on avionics software, in a role very similar to OP, and my experience was similar in some respects.

The tech and products were complex. The turnover rate was high and training new hires was a lengthy process. The new projects coming down the pipeline never ceased (this was during a period where FH/F9-1.1/Dragon/Crew was all under design/development and constant iteration).

It was fun for a young engineer, but burnout is real.

*WarpDrive was actually pretty impressive given the amount of stuff that it did.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#72

Post by freerobby »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #27
mikeash wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s infotainment and IT infrastructure is unrelated to their safety. If this guy worked on motor control or braking system firmware then that would be scary, but he didn’t.

> Tesla’s infotainment and IT infrastructure is unrelated to their safety. Only if it's deliberately isolated in the vehicle. It should be. Aaaand, it isn't: the firmware upgrades to all other car computing elements go through it.

Runtime isolation is distinct from compile/build-time isolation. You're citing the latter, but it's the former that matters. Tesla gets this right, e.g. an interrupt in the MCU does not have any effect on braking, drive-by-wire, or ADAS systems while a car is in operation.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#73

Post by ryana »

sz4kerto wrote: post #8

Why is this interesting or surprising? Of course almost all challengers have hacky tech under the hood because they don't have the resources. Winning from that position is possible not because of generally better tech but by delivering something that the incumbents don't. Remember the demo of the first iPhone (vs the huge expertise of Nokia). Or how Microsoft won the desktop starting from a single user, cooperative m…

> Of course almost all challengers have hacky tech under the hood because they don't have the resources.

Tesla has a larger market cap than Ford, GM, or Honda.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#74

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

8_hours_ago wrote: post #52
ddevault wrote: post #11

I used to work at SpaceX on the team that did a piece of software called "WarpDrive". It was a massive monolithic ASP.NET application, with large swaths done with ASP.NET WebForms and a slow frontier of ASP.NET MVC gradually growing when I was working there. This application was responsible for practically everything that ran the factory: inventory, supply chain management, cost analysis, etc. Elon is a big Windows f…

> the rockets fly with a heavily customized Linux install My jaw hit the floor the first time I heard this. Why Linux instead of an RTOS?? Apparently Tesla's autopilot also runs Linux, which seems like a huge accident waiting to happen (pun intended).

As a person who used to write navigation and control software for autonomous vehicles who occasionally gets downvoted for telling people that you really don't need a fancy RTOS for this stuff, you really don't need a fancy RTOS for this stuff. Linux is a very common platform for highly responsive robotic systems. I promise that their pid control isn't an Electron app.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#76

Post by GW150914 »

java_script wrote: post #18
xenihn wrote: post #5

I hope this means we get to see YOSPOS referenced in mainstream media as an actual source.

I hope this means HN finds the gazillion-page thread mocking HN there.

Do you have a link? It sounds like it could be both interesting and amusing.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#77

Post by agumonkey »

agildehaus wrote: post #61
8_hours_ago wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the rockets fly with a heavily customized Linux install My jaw hit the floor the first time I heard this. Why Linux instead of an RTOS?? Apparently Tesla's autopilot also runs Linux, which seems like a huge accident waiting to happen (pun intended).

Google's self-driving cars run a modified Ubuntu. Or did, last time they talked about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yd9Ij0INX0

I'm sure anything embedded is almost nothing like the pre-modified stock. The few paper I've read from embedded people is that they know how and will strip everything down until things are like they need.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#78

Post by FredFS456 »

kevan wrote: post #59
8_hours_ago wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the rockets fly with a heavily customized Linux install My jaw hit the floor the first time I heard this. Why Linux instead of an RTOS?? Apparently Tesla's autopilot also runs Linux, which seems like a huge accident waiting to happen (pun intended).

I'm not familiar with this space but I'm pretty sure there are hard realtime kernels for linux. I'd hope they're using one.

NI's cRIO devices use a real-time variant of Linux.

http://www.ni.com/white-paper/14627/en/

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#79

Post by mikeash »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #28
mikeash wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s infotainment and IT infrastructure is unrelated to their safety. If this guy worked on motor control or braking system firmware then that would be scary, but he didn’t.

Ignoring the infotainment system for this argument (as they firewall it off from CANBUS and other life critical systems [1]), I argue that their IT infrastructure is safety related, as it governs Tesla's velocity in getting patches and security fixes out to vehicles in a timely manner. Can you imagine a zero day being found in Windows with Windows Update being down? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX_0c9R4Fng

There's no guarantee that any given car is connected and receives updates, so the safety-critical systems need to be good enough when the car ships. They might mess up, but then they'd at least be able to patch cars faster, while other manufacturers would have to do a recall.

Re: Former Tesla Firmware Engineer Discusses the System

#80

Post by mikeash »

devy wrote: post #64
mikeash wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s infotainment and IT infrastructure is unrelated to their safety. If this guy worked on motor control or braking system firmware then that would be scary, but he didn’t.

If the infotainment system caused the MCUs to reboot while someone traveling "130mph on San Mateo Bridge" and that caused the break system to segfault due to unconventional way of loading parts firmware, it might be a life&death situation, easily. Examples in that threads go on, literally hundreds!

I don't understand how that could happen. MCU reboots, ???, brake system segfaults? What goes in the middle?
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