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IRC turns thirty

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Re: IRC turns thirty

#21

Post by DmenshunlAnlsis »

sdegutis wrote: post #18
cambalache wrote: post #8

It is refreshing to still use a technology which mainly has not been tainted with current crap (share, like, subscribe). You have to deal with some mods on power-trips, but it is rare. Happy thirty!

Not too rare. Several channels are held to their project's Code of Conduct. And some of those CoCs require you to agree to use x-based pronouns when someone requests it, or else banned until you change your mind.

How precious can someone be that calling someone what they want to be called is a burden? Just... do it. They’re not asking you to attend a sensitivity course, or buy into anything, it’s just a pronoun request, and what’s the harm? If someone wants me to call them a flying squirrel I will, and I’ll try my best to be both consistent and respectful about it, because why not?

The only time I think it’s fair to draw a line is if someone tries to dictate how you refer to other people, which is frankly none of their business. These CoC are really just “don’t be a dick, respect each other,” written down. If that’s burdensome to someone, that person has issues. If calling what you believe to be a “he” a “she” is really that hard, then that is definitively your problem.

Re: IRC turns thirty

#22

Post by sdegutis »

DmenshunlAnlsis wrote: post #21
sdegutis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not too rare. Several channels are held to their project's Code of Conduct. And some of those CoCs require you to agree to use x-based pronouns when someone requests it, or else banned until you change your mind.

How precious can someone be that calling someone what they want to be called is a burden? Just... do it. They’re not asking you to attend a sensitivity course, or buy into anything, it’s just a pronoun request, and what’s the harm? If someone wants me to call them a flying squirrel I will, and I’ll try my best to be both consistent and respectful about it, because why not? The only time I think it’s fair to draw a li…

Because I deeply value my integrity and honesty. Calling someone something other than what I believe they are, based on my fundamental beliefs and understandings about the life, the universe, and everything, would be a lie. So it comes down to me refusing to be dishonest and losing some convenience because of it. I'm okay with that.

Re: IRC turns thirty

#23

Post by yeukhon »

I hate Slack and I particularly despise Gitter. All the communities I had to go on at one point were totally out of service or totally uninterested in helping newbies. I am glad some organizations still use IRC as their main online network.

Re: IRC turns thirty

#24

Post by walrus01 »

sysashi wrote: post #11

I feel like we will end up with another program that abstracts Slack/Telegram/IRC into neat CLI interface and we will go full circle again. :) Happy birth day IRC!

Until they recently shut it down (boooooo), it was possible to bridge a company Slack channel into IRC and vice versa.

https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=sla...

Re: IRC turns thirty

#25

Post by DmenshunlAnlsis »

sdegutis wrote: post #22
DmenshunlAnlsis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How precious can someone be that calling someone what they want to be called is a burden? Just... do it. They’re not asking you to attend a sensitivity course, or buy into anything, it’s just a pronoun request, and what’s the harm? If someone wants me to call them a flying squirrel I will, and I’ll try my best to be both consistent and respectful about it, because why not? The only time I think it’s fair to draw a li…

Because I deeply value my integrity and honesty. Calling someone something other than what I believe they are, based on my fundamental beliefs and understandings about the life, the universe, and everything, would be a lie. So it comes down to me refusing to be dishonest and losing some convenience because of it. I'm okay with that.

Because the only thing I have left is my integrity and honesty.

As I said, very much your problem. For the rest of us who aren’t quite so fond of ourselves or bereft, it’s not a lie or a matter of convenience. Rather, it’s a matter of respecting another human and accommodation of the least order. It’s a minuscule request and a minuscule effort, unless as you claim to be, you’re just hanging on by fingertips. In the same way that I call people by their name, even if they changed it, and don’t harrangue them because I don’t like it, or because they changed it. “You’re not Bob, you’re Bill, and I won’t lie for you!”

Come on.

Edit: Wait, given who I think you are, you’re really someone who should focus on respecting other people’s basic rights and personhood over illusions of your own integrity. I’m going to have to be blunt and say that maybe your integrity isn’t as bulletproof as you’d like to think, and maybe your respect for other people is likewise, sorely lacking. I can see however how you’d dislike moderation on IRC though, and CoC’s, even if I don’t sympathize with why you dislike them.

Re: IRC turns thirty

#26

Post by emilsedgh »

sithadmin wrote: post #5
subhro wrote: post #3

I am invariably going to see in the world of Slack, "IRC, why don't you die already". No, IRC is not going to die. FreeNode is alive and well. And while you busy slamming and wishing death of IRC, just check the memory usage of your Slack client.

How does the memory usage of my Slack clients in any way impact the utility of the tool? Private and public communities that are active, relevant, and directly impact my livelihood are on Slack, so I'm also on Slack. I'm also on IRC, Discord, and Telegram. This isn't a zero-sum game.

I'm on all of them. IRC is by far my favorite.

Kind of like HN. When someone is commenting on HN I automatically have more interest than eg Facebook vs. Twitter as the primitive experience of HN (Which I personally love) filters out a lot of "noise".

There's great communities out there on IRC.

Just head to #postgres on freenode and see how helpful they are over there.

Re: IRC turns thirty

#27

Post by yeukhon »

sithadmin wrote: post #5
subhro wrote: post #3

I am invariably going to see in the world of Slack, "IRC, why don't you die already". No, IRC is not going to die. FreeNode is alive and well. And while you busy slamming and wishing death of IRC, just check the memory usage of your Slack client.

How does the memory usage of my Slack clients in any way impact the utility of the tool? Private and public communities that are active, relevant, and directly impact my livelihood are on Slack, so I'm also on Slack. I'm also on IRC, Discord, and Telegram. This isn't a zero-sum game.

Because communication should not be expensive.

Re: IRC turns thirty

#28

Post by twright0 »

sdegutis wrote: post #20
twright0 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your go-to example of "mods on power trips" is requiring basic respect for other peoples' personhood and right to their own identity, I'm inclined to agree it's not a particularly large problem.

Respect goes both ways. It's not respectful to ask someone to speak differently than what they believe about existence.

If you see an equivalence between asking you to respect someone else's identity, and asking someone else to respect your opinion about their identity - I don't know what to tell you. It's not the same, and it's dishonest to claim it is.

Re: IRC turns thirty

#29

Post by walrus01 »

keithnz wrote: post #17
craftyguy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IRC isn't "dying off." Many (many) projects still use it as their main communication channel for developers/users.

sure.... I still use it. But now IRC is much much more fringe, somewhat like usenet, ftp, telnet, etc is very fringe these days. It used to be like THE social networking tool. Somewhat like facebook. Maybe one day facebook too will be used by developers to communicate while everyone else is in virtual worlds

ftp is fringe because it's unencrypted and deals very poorly with NAT, and has performance/scaling issues for huge file transfers and transfers with huge numbers of discrete files.

telnet is fringe because it's totally plaintext and has obviously been replaced by ssh2 everywhere.

whereas irc daemons can easily be linked together by TLS1.2 and irc clients can also talk to servers over TLS.

Re: IRC turns thirty

#30

Post by sdegutis »

DmenshunlAnlsis wrote: post #25
sdegutis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I deeply value my integrity and honesty. Calling someone something other than what I believe they are, based on my fundamental beliefs and understandings about the life, the universe, and everything, would be a lie. So it comes down to me refusing to be dishonest and losing some convenience because of it. I'm okay with that.

Because the only thing I have left is my integrity and honesty. As I said, very much your problem. For the rest of us who aren’t quite so fond of ourselves or bereft, it’s not a lie or a matter of convenience. Rather, it’s a matter of respecting another human and accommodation of the least order. It’s a minuscule request and a minuscule effort, unless as you claim to be, you’re just hanging on by fingertips. In the s…

Names are different. They're given to us by a person's choice. Gender is an intrinsic part of us from the moment of conception, which no one has a choice in at that moment, and it's a permanent attribute.
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