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The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

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Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#111

Post by rednerrus »

wwweston wrote: post #14

I've been precisely once, and only in the last few years, so I am far from an expert on the trajectory of the event or any community surrounding it. But my observations were: * Any single characterization of an event that is partly defined by its city-sized number of participants is going to be incomplete. * There's a variety of different experiences to be found there. Chances are good you can find an experience to y…

Isn't one of the issues that many of the people who come now don't bring their own experiences? Are they there to consume experience rather than creating it?

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#112

Post by raldi »

Chathamization wrote: post #80
funfunfun wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is one of the best descriptions (or defenses?) of the festival I've ever read. Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Every year its still there, inspiring a new generation of these articles. "The event is flawed as hell and always has been" is my new response to people who are consider going and worry they missed the party

> Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Yeah, I wonder what the earliest article about that is. I did a brief search for the decline of Burning Man found a Wired article from 1997[1] (and of course numerous people talking about the decline later, like this blog post from 2004[2]). It reminds me of all those "I'm 13, is it too late for me to start learning programming/body buildi…

"I think it's fair to say that Silicon Valley is dead." (1993)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/alt.folklore.comp...

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#113

Post by autocracy »

funfunfun wrote: post #74
alevskaya wrote: post #23

I started and ran a science-oriented theme camp out there for over a decade as an impoverished academic, and a lot of my friends in the Bay Area help build or manage the event. I’m neither rich nor a hippy. To me, the fundamental idea of the event is that we’ve become divorced from the act of creation and civic participation due to being enmeshed in a highly commodified, transactional society and that it’s worth tryi…

I think this is one of the best descriptions (or defenses?) of the festival I've ever read. Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Every year its still there, inspiring a new generation of these articles. "The event is flawed as hell and always has been" is my new response to people who are consider going and worry they missed the party

"It was better next year" has been my running line. I rather like this one too.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#114

Post by rconti »

Chathamization wrote: post #80
funfunfun wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is one of the best descriptions (or defenses?) of the festival I've ever read. Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Every year its still there, inspiring a new generation of these articles. "The event is flawed as hell and always has been" is my new response to people who are consider going and worry they missed the party

> Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Yeah, I wonder what the earliest article about that is. I did a brief search for the decline of Burning Man found a Wired article from 1997[1] (and of course numerous people talking about the decline later, like this blog post from 2004[2]). It reminds me of all those "I'm 13, is it too late for me to start learning programming/body buildi…

As Warren Miller, the late, great ski movie filmmaker always said about attempting that challenging run or trick or whatever: "If you don't do it this year, you'll just be another year older when you do."

The older I get, the harder it is to accept being bad and new at things, and it's a constant fight to remind myself that it's okay to suck.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#115

Post by rconti »

Cowicide wrote: post #98
wwweston wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The event is flawed as hell and always has been" O HAI HUMANITY

I was thinking the exact, same thing as I read that. Burning Man has become what every human endeavor does once it gets "popular". Exploited. Seeing this in city after city across the USA as well. Formerly affordable cities used to grow, attract and keep artists and ground-up, bootsrapped creatives in business. This made these "B-list" cities a cultural hub and (for search of a better word) "cool". Wealthy people (ma…

Great comment.

But I also can't help but think that it ascribes an unnecessary purity of purpose/intent to the "working people" of the city.

Do they think they have common cause with the "working people" of a rust belt town or exurb? Do they (or for that matter, the trustafarians) think the rust belt iron worker's lifestyle or neighborhood is hip and cool?

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#116

Post by lordalch »

wnmurphy wrote: post #60

I went 6 years in a row, and I haven't been since they screwed up the ticket system with a lottery, introducing scarcity that wasn't there before and encouraging people to over-buy tickets out of fear and game the lottery website. In my mind it's turned into a side gag from HBO's Silicon Valley, where entitled tech bros throw money at plug-and-play camps in the hopes of seeing world famous DJs play unannounced sets,…

My understanding was that BLM limited the number of tickets they could sell, and they decided to make the tickets go by lottery rather than raise the price. If I were planning to go to Burning Man, I would just plan to buy the $1,200 ticket and skip the angst.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#117

Post by jdietrich »

theossuary wrote: post #84
jdietrich wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're an advertising executive or a software developer and decide that you'd be happier living in the desert and making weird sculptures from scrap, that is very much an option . Living in a cabin in the woods or sailing around the world or establishing a commune for circus artists is a thing that you can do, and you don't need to be a millionaire to do it.

I don't think you know how expensive it would be to sail around the world. Especially if you'd like to do it somewhat comfortably.

You've fallen into the trap of believing that there's only one way of doing things - the preposterously expensive way that's promoted in lifestyle magazines.

How much does it cost to learn to sail? If you take a Yachtmaster Offshore course, it'll cost you somewhere in the region of $15,000. If you show up at any marina and look keen, someone in need of crew will take you on board and show you the ropes for free. Many people have sailed around the world at almost no cost by crewing on other people's boats.

How much does a sailing boat cost? A brand new 50 footer with all the trimmings will cost you upwards of $400,000. You can buy a rough little boat and properly fit it out for bluewater sailing for about $20,000. It'll be ugly, it'll be cramped, it'll have faded gelcoat and threadbare upholstery, but it'll safely take you across oceans. That's not a trivial sum of money, but it's well within reach of most skilled professionals. If you look after it, you'll be able to sell it for close to what you paid for it.

What are your other costs? Mainly food, running repairs and mooring fees. If you want to do everything in five-star luxury, expect to spend about $80,000 over the course of a circumnavigation. If you don't mind sleeping at anchor and eating from dented cans, you could easily circumnavigate for under $8,000 - less if you avoid the Panama Canal.

There's a widespread belief - particularly in America - that adventurous lifestyles are the exclusive domain of the gratuitously wealthy. The reality is very different, especially if you're young, childless and have marketable skills. Even if you're none of those things, your options are far wider than you might imagine as long as you're willing to think creatively and live modestly.

https://www.amazon.com/Voyaging-Small-Income-Annie-Hill/dp/1...

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#118

Post by bigiain »

Chathamization wrote: post #80
funfunfun wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is one of the best descriptions (or defenses?) of the festival I've ever read. Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Every year its still there, inspiring a new generation of these articles. "The event is flawed as hell and always has been" is my new response to people who are consider going and worry they missed the party

> Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Yeah, I wonder what the earliest article about that is. I did a brief search for the decline of Burning Man found a Wired article from 1997[1] (and of course numerous people talking about the decline later, like this blog post from 2004[2]). It reminds me of all those "I'm 13, is it too late for me to start learning programming/body buildi…

I heard about it from a friend in '96, read that article in '97, attended first time in '98. There were already people saying "Man, this thing has sold out. You shoulda been here back when it was good, before there were, like, 7,000 people here most of who don't know 'the principles' the event is based on..."

Pretty much every year between then and when I last went (in '14) there were new rules which people claimed "ruined the evnt forever!!!" - in '99 Steve couldn't run The Drive-By Shooting Gallery again because they banned guns. Erin's camp stopped being allowed to use theirliquid fuelled flamethrowers in around '03 or '04. The Lawrence Livermore Labs guys got told they couldn't bring their big lasers out and paint animations on the mountain range in '10 or so... But at the same time, there was always some amazing new thing to see. I don't regret any of my trips out there. I still plan to get back there again one day.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#119

Post by ddingus »

alevskaya wrote: post #23

I started and ran a science-oriented theme camp out there for over a decade as an impoverished academic, and a lot of my friends in the Bay Area help build or manage the event. I’m neither rich nor a hippy. To me, the fundamental idea of the event is that we’ve become divorced from the act of creation and civic participation due to being enmeshed in a highly commodified, transactional society and that it’s worth tryi…

The art of trying...

I appreciate your take on the event.

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