The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man • Hacker News Board

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#101

Post by abalone » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 10:10 PM UTC

"Leave no trace" has always been a fake Burning Man ideal. Sure, they clean up after themselves, but hauling a mini city onto the desert and back (incl. water and sewage) leaves a relatively large per-attendee carbon footprint. That's a trace! Plus there's dumb stuff like straining water resources just to wash off all the dust.

Usually when you bring this up they'll say "it's worth it" for all the other ideals. But irrefutably it's still a fake ideal, which calls into question the authenticity of all of them.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#102

Post by gascan » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 10:13 PM UTC

Chathamization wrote: post #80

funfunfun wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is one of the best descriptions (or defenses?) of the festival I've ever read. Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Every year its still there, inspiring a new generation of these articles. "The event is flawed as hell and always has been" is my new response to people who are consider going and worry they missed the party

> Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Yeah, I wonder what the earliest article about that is. I did a brief search for the decline of Burning Man found a Wired article from 1997[1] (and of course numerous people talking about the decline later, like this blog post from 2004[2]). It reminds me of all those "I'm 13, is it too late for me to start learning programming/body buildi…

If you don't do something you're interested in because you think its too late...

A proverb I remind myself of regularly:

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

Including the times when I look out my window and wish my sapling was a bit older.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#103

Post by andrei_says_ » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

alevskaya wrote: post #23

I started and ran a science-oriented theme camp out there for over a decade as an impoverished academic, and a lot of my friends in the Bay Area help build or manage the event. I’m neither rich nor a hippy. To me, the fundamental idea of the event is that we’ve become divorced from the act of creation and civic participation due to being enmeshed in a highly commodified, transactional society and that it’s worth tryi…

Burningman blew off the glass ceiling off of “creativity” and “art” for me, and most importantly, showed me that such a glass ceiling exists.

I deeply grateful for this.

The open invite for participation and collaboration on a large scale is another wonderful aspect.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#104

Post by baxtr » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 10:36 PM UTC

Chathamization wrote: post #80

funfunfun wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is one of the best descriptions (or defenses?) of the festival I've ever read. Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Every year its still there, inspiring a new generation of these articles. "The event is flawed as hell and always has been" is my new response to people who are consider going and worry they missed the party

> Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Yeah, I wonder what the earliest article about that is. I did a brief search for the decline of Burning Man found a Wired article from 1997[1] (and of course numerous people talking about the decline later, like this blog post from 2004[2]). It reminds me of all those "I'm 13, is it too late for me to start learning programming/body buildi…

Reminds me of the “Worst wasp season in 20 years” articles we get here in Germany every year...

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#105

Post by eecc » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 10:38 PM UTC

Cowicide wrote: post #98

wwweston wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The event is flawed as hell and always has been" O HAI HUMANITY

I was thinking the exact, same thing as I read that. Burning Man has become what every human endeavor does once it gets "popular". Exploited. Seeing this in city after city across the USA as well. Formerly affordable cities used to grow, attract and keep artists and ground-up, bootsrapped creatives in business. This made these "B-list" cities a cultural hub and (for search of a better word) "cool". Wealthy people (ma…

Lovely comment. I can’t exaclty relate to the last conclusions because they’re quite US specific. It was a bit different for me, but I certainly feel the “getting kicked out” by the corporatization of the city, a city I’m not so sure I want to hang around any more with all these trustafarians roaming. I even regret not being an efficient planner - like those internet darlings showing off their precocious teenage efficiency - and not being rich enough today to keep up, even if I wanted to.

Oh, I guess the grapes are too sour eh! ;)

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#106

Post by ramses0 » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 10:40 PM UTC

marnett wrote: post #57

jdietrich wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're an advertising executive or a software developer and decide that you'd be happier living in the desert and making weird sculptures from scrap, that is very much an option . Living in a cabin in the woods or sailing around the world or establishing a commune for circus artists is a thing that you can do, and you don't need to be a millionaire to do it.

is it possible you have any tips on the circus commune?

wwoof + circus turns up something in oregon. Investigate if you're interested.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#107

Post by dmurray » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 10:46 PM UTC

krrrh wrote: post #93

theossuary wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you know how expensive it would be to sail around the world. Especially if you'd like to do it somewhat comfortably.

Someone I know well wanted to sail around the world. Learned to sail, and she got to know people with boats who needed crew to take shifts on their sailboards, and were headed somewhere interesting. Then she would repeat the process at the next port. There are also forums for connecting people in this manner. She always got food on board, and sometimes paid a stipend at the end of the trip. After a year and a half of…

I've met a few people doing versions of this. It's definitely possible to sail round the world on 2-6 person boats and come back with more money than you started with.

You can't skip over the cost (both time and money) of learning to sail, though. It's not a cheap hobby, though you might get lucky and find someone to take you on for free.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#108

Post by burntrelish1273 » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 11:01 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #62

newnewpdro wrote: post #6

"Leaving no trace" What is the carbon footprint of this festival? They should rephrase that to "Leaving no visible trace"

"Leave No Trace" is a term of art: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leave_No_Trace It's not without criticism.

There's a similar festival in Norway where they climb up 30m to burn a tower of wooden pallets. And another in Ireland IIRC.

The unique aspect of Burning Man is the self-assembling, temporary community/world diaspora.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#109

Post by rednerrus » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 11:01 PM UTC

There are people in this world who have no creativity. They are desperate not to be living the lives they've chosen. Eventually, they are going to show up in your creative venture with their other, not creative friends. They are going to bring the money they made doing their not creative work. They are well-intentioned but they are going to ruin everything. They are trying so hard to escape the assholes that ruin things. They don't realize they are the assholes that ruin things.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#110

Post by burntrelish1273 » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 11:03 PM UTC

jontas wrote: post #50

CrankyBear wrote: post #42

Vanishing? Folks, it's been gone for years. It's now summer camp for well-off techies.

I don't think you read the article.. it's about how the idealism of the artwork vanishes once it's left the playa. It has nothing to do with the changing nature of burning man.

Perhaps it's an idealism that shouldn't be temporary like "Earth Day." Live consistent to one's ideals, such as say going vegetarian, everyday rather than temporarily going on a The Purge sex and drugs bender.