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The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

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Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#91
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meaningfulness can and should be something you can create in daily life, not push off to some once-a-year event. It may not be something you feel 24/7, but surely someone can muster up some kind of really fascinating reality to create or explore at least on a daily basis. Crafting, the outdoors, weekly D&D sessions, all kinds of things offer all kinds of neat little worlds you can explore and be a part of something b…

Its possible the event only feels meaningful merely because its only one week a year. If it were all the time if would be just "part of the daily grind."

That's what's sad about it. The daily grind should be meaningful in and of itself. But if you can't make that meaningful, then there should at least be another place you can go once a day where you do get that feeling.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#92
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that sad? She found something she enjoys doing. Better than someone who has yet to find that spark that gives life meaning. Is everyone in the advertising business supposed to love making adverts? I certainly feel more alive camping with friends than I do debugging JavaScript. I'm lucky enough to have a life where I can go on 2 or 3 major vacations a year with friends and family with another couple smaller tri…

Meaningfulness can and should be something you can create in daily life, not push off to some once-a-year event. It may not be something you feel 24/7, but surely someone can muster up some kind of really fascinating reality to create or explore at least on a daily basis. Crafting, the outdoors, weekly D&D sessions, all kinds of things offer all kinds of neat little worlds you can explore and be a part of something b…

I think it's a bit arrogant for you to decide what should be meaningful for others.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're an advertising executive or a software developer and decide that you'd be happier living in the desert and making weird sculptures from scrap, that is very much an option . Living in a cabin in the woods or sailing around the world or establishing a commune for circus artists is a thing that you can do, and you don't need to be a millionaire to do it.

I don't think you know how expensive it would be to sail around the world. Especially if you'd like to do it somewhat comfortably.

Someone I know well wanted to sail around the world. Learned to sail, and she got to know people with boats who needed crew to take shifts on their sailboards, and were headed somewhere interesting. Then she would repeat the process at the next port. There are also forums for connecting people in this manner. She always got food on board, and sometimes paid a stipend at the end of the trip. After a year and a half of adventure in dream locales I don't think she was out-of-pocket more than a four figure sum.

Certainty, and minimizing risk is expensive, but accepting the opposite can open up a lot of opportunities.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#94
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not really. Maybe the readers of HN can, though. Which I suppose is part of user killantics' point.

I'm sorry, but this is such a toxic mentality. Yes any able-body person that wants to can work and take a week off if they wanted to. Most don't, and many can't because of responsibilities such as having kids.

Any person? You sure?

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not be rich, but you are not poor. How can these projects be about civic participation if they're not inclusive to the kinds of people that can't afford to take time off work and trek across the country to go camping in the desert? There are lots of ways people try to address the problems of our "highly commodified, transactional society" within their own communities, where everyone is capable of participatin…

Hopefully not treading on too many toes, but I would hazard, being part of an in-group rather than idealogies that are being used to as a reason to come together, are closer to what drives Burning man's economy of sharing, than actual altruism. Humans are more inclined to be altruistic to their in-group, and to see their in-group as 'everyone'. Often without noticing. Burning man is, to some people, a very important…

Hopefully not treading on too many toes, but I would hazard, being part of an in-group rather than idealogies that are being used to as a reason to come together, are closer to what drives Burning man's economy of sharing, than actual altruism.

What you just described is the actual altruism.

I'm positing that people don't go to burning man inherently to do good - they do it for themselves, and that includes the giving and sharing, in the support of a community they identify with.

Let's leave out a few words to get something more universal:

"People don't inherently do good - they do things for themselves, and that includes giving and sharing in the support of a community they identify with."

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#96
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not really. Maybe the readers of HN can, though. Which I suppose is part of user killantics' point.

I'm sorry, but this is such a toxic mentality. Yes any able-body person that wants to can work and take a week off if they wanted to. Most don't, and many can't because of responsibilities such as having kids.

Not sure what country you live in, but the US has no legally mandated vacation time. 23% of private sector workers get 0 days.

https://www.epi.org/publication/millions-of-working-people-d...

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#97
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meaningfulness can and should be something you can create in daily life, not push off to some once-a-year event. It may not be something you feel 24/7, but surely someone can muster up some kind of really fascinating reality to create or explore at least on a daily basis. Crafting, the outdoors, weekly D&D sessions, all kinds of things offer all kinds of neat little worlds you can explore and be a part of something b…

I think it's a bit arrogant for you to decide what should be meaningful for others.

I gave examples of things that could be found meaningful. But meaning is, of course, something that only the individual can find.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is one of the best descriptions (or defenses?) of the festival I've ever read. Every year there are articles about how Burning Man has 'lost' or is 'done'. Every year its still there, inspiring a new generation of these articles. "The event is flawed as hell and always has been" is my new response to people who are consider going and worry they missed the party

> "The event is flawed as hell and always has been" O HAI HUMANITY

I was thinking the exact, same thing as I read that. Burning Man has become what every human endeavor does once it gets "popular".

Exploited.

Seeing this in city after city across the USA as well.

Formerly affordable cities used to grow, attract and keep artists and ground-up, bootsrapped creatives in business. This made these "B-list" cities a cultural hub and (for search of a better word) "cool".

Wealthy people (many of whom were silver-spooned trustafarians) started venturing into the "cool" parties/scenes, loved the culture like everyone else there did — except they moved in and gentrified the city (some with good intentions and many others who didn't give a shit). Some (if not most) of these wealthy people just couldn't truly relate to the prevailing, scrappy culture and didn't really contribute anything to the dynamic and basically killed it. Only the cultural reputation remained and was kept as a corporate marketing ploy, but the core substance of the city (its working class creatives) were unceremoniously and tragically removed.

The artists and truly bootstrapped creatives can no longer afford to live directly in the city, so they move to the run-down industrial outskirts. The city becomes sanitized, gains a lot of national corporate chain conformity and loses a lot of local, novel culture that made it attractive in the first place.

Next thing you know, the industrial area becomes the cultural center and the "hip", cool place to hang out is at artsy, underground events and parties within the area.

The wealthy, of course, end up there because it's the "cool" place to be. While they're there, they eyeball the industrial spaces as future fancy, high-ceiling lofts they can gentrify. They kill off the affordable spaces and the artists and creatives are now left with no where to go but leave the metro area entirely or become another corporate working stiff with no time for art and risky creative endeavors involving small business.

That's where we are today and some of the last stragglers are jamming themselves into dangerous, crowded situations that led to the horrific fire at the CA space (in my opinion).

Moral of the story is many (not all) trustafarians suck the life out of good things because they were raised in such a way that they can't possibly relate to working people or even care to do so.

I'm not sure there's an easy answer to this short of a revolution of sorts where working people unite and demand a more level playing field instead of gross inequality and corporate greed.

That's why I support organizations such as the Justice Democrats and things such as single-payer healthcare. I don't want equality of outcome, just more equality of opportunity. I think that's healthy for society and for a culture that produces more makers instead of mere consumers. The path we're on now is unhealthy and downright dangerous. It's got to change or we're headed toward misery for all of us (including the trustafarians down the road).

/rant

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#99

I've been precisely once, and only in the last few years, so I am far from an expert on the trajectory of the event or any community surrounding it. But my observations were: * Any single characterization of an event that is partly defined by its city-sized number of participants is going to be incomplete. * There's a variety of different experiences to be found there. Chances are good you can find an experience to y…

[deleted]

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#100

Having participated in a lot of countercultural gatherings, I was initially intrigued about Burning Man. But if you hear about an event from the mass media, instead of through word of mouth in your own small countercultural community, chances are that the event is already past its prime. After hearing lots of old-timers talk about how Burning Man was in the 1990s, and then hearing more recent attendees describe their…

Yup, Burning Man has definitely been ruined, you shouldn't go: https://journal.burningman.org/2016/10/philosophical-center/...
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