Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#151

Post by macintux » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:51 PM UTC

markkanof wrote: post #38

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

But in a case like Netflix the whole ecosystem that Apple/Google have built aren’t providing any value for Netflix. No one discovers Netflix through the App Store. The iPhone is just one more device that Netflix will try to support because customers want to be able to access Netflix on as many different types of devices as possible. This is way different than for example an indie dev building a game that is best enjo…

> But in a case like Netflix the whole ecosystem that Apple/Google have built aren’t providing any value for Netflix.

There's some added value. I wouldn't have a Netflix subscription without an iPad, since I don't own a TV.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#152

Post by butterfi » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

microtonal wrote: post #24

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. I can understand the argument that they should accept the 30% cut to be listed in and downloa…

We already have gatekeepers for books. The publisher who decides what to publish, the book store owner who decides what to stock, and the librarian who selects what book stays or goes. Gatekeeping doesn't seem like much of an argument.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#153

Post by sidr » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

binomialxenon wrote: post #115

s73v3r_ wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you aren't having all your desires perfectly catered to does not mean that there is not real choice. It means that, like everything else in life, you have to make tradeoffs.

I really think we should ask more of technology rather than to just accept Locked-Thing vs Spy-Thing. It's practically an imposed dichotomy, and people deserve better.

Other models of monetization are simply not sufficient. If you disagree, please feel free to write your own mobile OS (you can even start by just forking Android).

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#154

Post by michaelmrose » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:55 PM UTC

Can we just establish a list of app stores by registration and a fee to pay for vetting by independent experts and force apple to include at first run a choice of stores to enable kind of like forcing MS to include other browsers in the EU. With the understanding of course that they don't exclude users who pick alternative stores from the official apps/store.

Then if we don't want to deal with their bullshit we can just have an iphone shipped from the EU and enjoy a device we actually own.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#155

Post by renjimen » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

butterfi wrote: post #152

microtonal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. I can understand the argument that they should accept the 30% cut to be listed in and downloa…

We already have gatekeepers for books. The publisher who decides what to publish, the book store owner who decides what to stock, and the librarian who selects what book stays or goes. Gatekeeping doesn't seem like much of an argument.

There are thankfully many publishers and booksellers, each with their own ideas of how to do business. If you buy an iPhone you only have one place to "shop"

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#156

Post by yongjik » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #141

yongjik wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, Apple standing its ground and forcing poor companies to get their apps approved by Apple played a big role in South Korea's mobile banking experience not being a total shitfest filled with five Windows-only security plugins (per bank) that will fight with the user and each other. Sure, in an alternative universe, you can always say no to the whole nation's banking industry and refuse to do mobile ba…

Very interesting, do you have any cites for that? S. Korea has always been dominated by Android phones (and specifically Samsung, the home brand), so it's amazing that Apple gets the credit for the mobile banking experience. What's even more amazing is that iPhones weren't even sold in Korea until 2010, long after most Korean banks had released mobile apps, so Apple must have somehow manipulated time and space to cha…

iPhones were more popular back then, and even if there's already an Android app, if the experience is a lot shittier than corresponding iPhone experience, users (and maybe Samsung and LG, who have to sell the phones after all) would demand a better app.

Sorry, that's what I remember from reading Korean boards years ago. I don't have a citation.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#157

Post by binomialxenon » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:59 PM UTC

orf wrote: post #135

binomialxenon wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is how it works, at least not from my past experience with Lineage. A browser isn't an app installer, as when you download an APK from it, the APK is staged through the phone's integrated file manager (aka "Downloads" app), and is treated as having no real source. As far as I know, real "app installers" are purpose-built programs such as Amazon Appstore and F-Droid.

Hmm, you might be right, but I installed an APK recently (also on Lineage) and it asked me to authorize Firefox, it had the Firefox logo and seemed to suggest that future installs would be authorized. I cancelled it and opened it through the file manager.

Hmm, that might be one of the changes made in Oreo. Weird, I don't think it's a very good change either.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#158

Post by aiyodev » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 9:00 PM UTC

freedomben wrote: post #124

aiyodev wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the owner should be allowed (morally) to install software outside the app store The inability to do this is a feature. I don’t want my phone to run random garbage like Android does. The curated app store is the main reason I keep buying iPhones.

You realize you don't have to allow this on your Android phone right? Are you worried that you aren't responsible enough to leave unknown sources disabled (as it is from the factory)? Trying to understand how you view being forced to comply, a feature over the option to leave it on or turn it off.

So many things.

Software from unknown sources can have malicious code. But, even if it doesn’t, it can update itself with malware later. The lack of curation leaves the Android ecosystem with millions of garbage apps riddled with bugs and malware. The easiest way to sift through all the crap is to only install apps that have iOS versions.

I trust myself to not enable unknown sources. I trust myself to only install reliable appe as I did for years before switching to the iPhone (owned the G1). But I do not trust children. I do not trust family members and friends. And I don’t have the patience to fix their crappy android phones after they install garbage from the Google Play store.

Also, I would rather use a device that is supported with security updates for years instead of months.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#159

Post by wvenable » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 9:06 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #78

peatmoss wrote: post #20

I miss the idea that a platform, applications, and marketplace were not a vertical stack owned by one entity. As a consumer, I’d love to buy a phone, not a content distribution straight jacket.

For the non-technical majority they are a huge advantage. We're never going to have average users fully technically aware. I well remember the state of Windows during Win 98 and XP where most had no idea what they were downloading, and it seemed every machine had malware, hidden pop ups and 37 IE toolbars. I was constantly asked to clean up friend's machines from the damage done by Kazaa and its associated garbage or…

Imagine of Microsoft had a similar store to Apple in 1995 with the same restrictions on downloading and executing external code. The web itself could have been killed in the cradle on day one.

The fact that you are here typing this reply right now is entirely because of the state of Windows during 98 and XP. It's a balance between security and freedom. You are arguing for the benefit of security while ignoring the effect that freedom has had on the last 30 years of computing.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#160

Post by donarb » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 9:06 PM UTC

tolmasky wrote: post #90

Ultimately it’s of course their choice, but I truly believe that a “fee-less” App Store would be better for the party that so seldom gets mentioned: me, the consumer. I’m the one that’s ultimately paying the 30%, not the apps. I already paid 1000$ for this phone, if I spend money on Netflix I want that money going to making great tv shows, all of it, not 70% of it.

Who cares what the developer has to pay Apple? Do you care how much the developer pays in rent for his office, or his high speed internet? Maybe the app would be cheaper if the developer pays himself $50/hour rather than $100. All of those costs are part of the app price as well.