The successor to Burning Man is probably Wasteland Weekend. Even that's getting commercial. It's turning into a music festival.
The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man
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Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man
#52Burning Man's predecessor beach parties sound a lot like how events in the UK 'rave' scene happened. The commercial clubs took over what was once fun, spontaneous, non-hierarchical and free in the rave/festival scene.
Having a spectacular, out of the world location was always important with 'rave', this could be the grandeur of the great outdoors or an illegally occupied premium site, e.g. the council's own offices rigged with 40K of sound with the place completely off limits for the authorities.
To some degree, whether in town or in remote countryside there was always an aspect of squatting to a true 'rave' event. Even if a venue was legit, e.g. a farm with the farmer being in on the deal, there would be laws, neighbours and active policing with searches. Once inside the autonomous zone life was lived with a very different, trusting 'security model' of community. There was an alternative world there, the same thing Burning Man attendees go to seek but get a ritualised, pastiche of.
In time the law banned 'repetitive beats' and people got old. The dance music that was a big part of 'rave' did live on in the commercialised club scene and with DJs doing legit concert style events, nowadays to fill stadiums. The 'rave' free party scene died along with the ability to temporarily live 'free' from a world of conventional law and order.
Burning Man might not be ideal and far too American for the tastes of many however it offers the illusion of being able to live in that way the UK free party scene offered. Even if it is more akin to an organised festival you can at least pretend that you are living as a 'free man'. Maybe Burning Man can only ever offer a glimpse at the ideals that it is supposed to be about just because there has to be some organisation rather than it being utterly spontaneous. This matters not, Burning Man is established as its own thing and it has been that way since the end of the beach party scene it inherited.
Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is that sad? She found something she enjoys doing. Better than someone who has yet to find that spark that gives life meaning. Is everyone in the advertising business supposed to love making adverts? I certainly feel more alive camping with friends than I do debugging JavaScript. I'm lucky enough to have a life where I can go on 2 or 3 major vacations a year with friends and family with another couple smaller tri…
Meaningfulness can and should be something you can create in daily life, not push off to some once-a-year event. It may not be something you feel 24/7, but surely someone can muster up some kind of really fascinating reality to create or explore at least on a daily basis. Crafting, the outdoors, weekly D&D sessions, all kinds of things offer all kinds of neat little worlds you can explore and be a part of something b…
Its possible the event only feels meaningful merely because its only one week a year. If it were all the time if would be just "part of the daily grind."
Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man
#54I’m turned off from going by the fact that it seems the only friends I know that go are a narrow demographic of your typical techie. They plan their entire year around it and act like it’s their sole purpose in life. Honestly I don’t want to end up like that, thinking that the real world offers no thrill or spectacle or surprises such that I need to reduce my life down into a few weeks in the desert at the end of the…
I went in 2010 and one of the first people I met there was an advertising exec who said this event was the only time she felt alive. It was really sad.
> I went in 2010 and one of the first people
> I met there was an advertising exec who said
> this event was the only time she felt alive.
> It was really sad.
I can't decide if what she said is 'virtue signaling'[1] or 'humble bragging' [2]
It's obviously a dig at the professions that she has either chosen or can't escape from and it kind of smacks of 'anyone doing this is really lame and has no value but at least I recognize that and therefore I am a good person'.
Also reminds me a bit of when people apologize about being an attorney.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling
[2] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/...
Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man
#55Having participated in a lot of countercultural gatherings, I was initially intrigued about Burning Man. But if you hear about an event from the mass media, instead of through word of mouth in your own small countercultural community, chances are that the event is already past its prime. After hearing lots of old-timers talk about how Burning Man was in the 1990s, and then hearing more recent attendees describe their…
> After hearing lots of old-timers talk about how Burning Man was in the 1990s There were people already saying "it's not cool any more" even in the 90s. That was in fact how I first heard about Burning Man, due to someone complaining about it not being cool anymore, around 97 or so. Very likely people have pretty much always said it. It's like the old joke about how the first car race happened the day someone built…
> There were people already saying "it's not cool any more" even in the 90s.
If you will please refer to my post above, that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Obviously any social scene is going to have people complaining it isn’t cool any more compared to years past. But I find that by talking to early participants, ones who don’t expressly complain like that, you can still make your own conclusion that the event now may not be as satisfying or worthwhile as in earlier years.
Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
I went in 2010 and one of the first people I met there was an advertising exec who said this event was the only time she felt alive. It was really sad.
Why is that sad? She found something she enjoys doing. Better than someone who has yet to find that spark that gives life meaning. Is everyone in the advertising business supposed to love making adverts? I certainly feel more alive camping with friends than I do debugging JavaScript. I'm lucky enough to have a life where I can go on 2 or 3 major vacations a year with friends and family with another couple smaller tri…
An advertising executive probably makes more than enough to not be an advertising executive if they so choose. You don't find it ironic that an advertising executive goes to Burning Man? Advertising, a cornerstone of late-stage capitalism? Sad really, because this person can pretend for a week that they aren't the ones making things worse.
Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is that sad? She found something she enjoys doing. Better than someone who has yet to find that spark that gives life meaning. Is everyone in the advertising business supposed to love making adverts? I certainly feel more alive camping with friends than I do debugging JavaScript. I'm lucky enough to have a life where I can go on 2 or 3 major vacations a year with friends and family with another couple smaller tri…
If you're an advertising executive or a software developer and decide that you'd be happier living in the desert and making weird sculptures from scrap, that is very much an option . Living in a cabin in the woods or sailing around the world or establishing a commune for circus artists is a thing that you can do, and you don't need to be a millionaire to do it.
is it possible you have any tips on the circus commune?
Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man
#58Fuck Yer Burn!
Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man
#59Having participated in a lot of countercultural gatherings, I was initially intrigued about Burning Man. But if you hear about an event from the mass media, instead of through word of mouth in your own small countercultural community, chances are that the event is already past its prime. After hearing lots of old-timers talk about how Burning Man was in the 1990s, and then hearing more recent attendees describe their…
There are new countercultural / underground things going on that the hive mind techie culture hasn't found yet because the few of us that are lucky enough to be included in it know how fast things get discovered / ruined now. It's hard though. People like using Snap and Insta as their journal.
do you live in SF?
Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man
#60I went 6 years in a row, and I haven't been since they screwed up the ticket system with a lottery, introducing scarcity that wasn't there before and encouraging people to over-buy tickets out of fear and game the lottery website.
In my mind it's turned into a side gag from HBO's Silicon Valley, where entitled tech bros throw money at plug-and-play camps in the hopes of seeing world famous DJs play unannounced sets, so they can post selfies on Instagram.
It's all of that and also none of that. It's the most exhausting vacation.