Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#101

Post by funwie » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:57 PM UTC

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

>Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features,

App developers have to pay for Apple’s and Google’s R&D and devices? Do consumers not pay for this when they buy their devices.

>but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users.

These were created for their consumers and not for developers. You think features are added to their devices to please developers? Why do developers have to pay for these things?

>The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable.

More than reasonable? Do a little experiment. Run a business and have 30% of your revenue taken from you.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#102

Post by nijave » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:57 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #52

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

As a counter point consider Microsoft Windows. It also represented a huge investment and R&D and for the most part, you can easily build and deploy and application to anybody without ever having to pay a fee. That was because Microsoft made money from selling Windows. With Android, Google gives it away free and has to extract money by either monetizing user data, or taking a cut from application developers.

Android OS is free but manufacturers still pay for the Google ecosystem that sits on top https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/...

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#103

Post by menacingly » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

I do think the Apple/Google cut has been natural. The phone and successful app stores aren't accidents, they're endpoints in a long chain of work to focus consumer attention in a way that sells software.

That said, these benefits have an expiration date. I don't think the app store cut has been a ripoff for its entire history, but if the temperature of the room has shifted toward hostility, it might be that they've spent the goodwill they earned with their innovation and now it's time for a more sustainable long term arrangement.

We can find middle ground between "Apple did nothing for me" and "Apple deserves 30% of software sales for eternity"

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#104

Post by IMTDb » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

bepotts wrote: post #46

peatmoss wrote: post #20

I miss the idea that a platform, applications, and marketplace were not a vertical stack owned by one entity. As a consumer, I’d love to buy a phone, not a content distribution straight jacket.

As a consumer, I love it. I love that I buy an iPhone and Apple doesn't allow any non-trusted binaries to run on my phone, enforces strict style guidelines (the average app just looks better on my iPhone than Android IMO), has one place where all possible apps are, maintains a distribution channels that allows all my apps to be updated easily, and builds hardware and software that is designed to work together. I love…

Just give us the ability to manually whitelist external developers signing keys. That way you can choose to only install apple signed apps (the current situation which would become the default of the new system) or to accept apple signed apps + selected devs applications (which is currently impossible). It already works on OSX.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#105

Post by s73v3r_ » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:58 PM UTC

autokad wrote: post #30

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

> "he 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable." Not really, the fee's much of big tech often puts on people are draconian, and they are able to continue doing so because of the monopolies they hold. 30% is huge. Just try running a business when you loose 30% strait off the top line. > "Want to bypass that cut?" break the monopolies. The cuts big tech muscle on their constituents actually hurts them in…

"Just try running a business when you loose 30% strait off the top line."

Like every retail business ever?

People here seem to have forgotten what it was like to sell something back before Apple's App Store. 30% was considered insane in just how small it was.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#106

Post by segmondy » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:00 PM UTC

tusharsoni wrote: post #17

Apple and Google should update their policies where they take a much smaller cut if the user got to the App Store page directly (via external link) or a direct search. They deserve the 30% cut if users find the app by browsing the store (which doesn't happen nearly as often).

Maybe intel deserves 30% of the cut since you used their CPU to find an app when you use a web browser. How about Firefox, do they deserve a cut? Maybe Comcast since you used their network. Apple & Google don't deserve 30%, their app store is a monopoly. The same way it's unfair for Microsoft to force you to only use Internet explorer is the same way it's unfair for us to be forced to use the app store. There should be other alternatives, and none of them should have a restriction such as, "You can't publish your apps with us if you do with another store".

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#107

Post by stale2002 » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:00 PM UTC

bepotts wrote: post #79

microtonal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. I can understand the argument that they should accept the 30% cut to be listed in and downloa…

Only on the internet does the notion of a "gatekeeper" leading to some authoritarian universe make sense. In the real word, it isn't immoral to sell devices that don't run non-trusted binaries. If Tim Cook and Sundar Pichai could speak to every user and tell them "the reason our platform's default behavior is to not run non-trusted apps is because we don't want your device to get viruses or perform non-trusted functi…

It is not reasonable for Apple to sue people for attempting to make changed to devices that they own.

(This indeed happened, when Apple attempted to stop people from jailbreaking their phones).

I believe in property rights and everyone's legal right to make whatever changes that they want to devices that they own.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#108

Post by nijave » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:01 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #16

orf wrote: post #2

> Epic Games will be launching its hit game Fortnite for Android on its own website, and fans will only be able to download the game there, not on Google Play ... while the setting that blocks third-party installations can be disabled on Android phones. If they are talking about disabling it system wide vs disabling it for a single application, is this not pretty irresponsible? Lots of kids play Fortnite, saying "hey…

Installing a downloaded APK means you miss out on Google's identity verification process, and maybe on Google's malicious code scanning -- but Google Play Protect says it will scan all apps on your device, and may upload your apps to Google[1], so it might not be that big of a difference in practice, if you get linked into the appstore by a shady website, you can get a shady app. There's a bigger difference on iOS, i…

Unless there's a different app store doing the same thing. (Such as Amazon app store for Android or F-Droid)

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#109

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:03 PM UTC

gowld wrote: post #98

gst wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, an iOS device is also the property of its owner and the owner should be allowed (morally) to install software outside the app store. Even if that comes with potential security problems. Android already permits this. The owner has the choice between iOS and Android. Why should Apple change their policies (and lose revenue) if the majority of users appear to be sufficiently happy with those restrictions (oth…

Because of antitrust concerns. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/antitrust.asp

iOS still has less than 50% of the market, however.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#110

Post by IMTDb » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:03 PM UTC

markkanof wrote: post #38

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

But in a case like Netflix the whole ecosystem that Apple/Google have built aren’t providing any value for Netflix. No one discovers Netflix through the App Store. The iPhone is just one more device that Netflix will try to support because customers want to be able to access Netflix on as many different types of devices as possible. This is way different than for example an indie dev building a game that is best enjo…

Netflix can choose to disable subscribing to it's services through the app. Maybe no one "discovers" netflix through an iOS device, but apparently a lot are starting their subscription through it.