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Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

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Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#181
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think any techie would appreciate the consitency of two of the three alphabets in Japanese. (Hiragana and Katakana) The very fact that both of these alphabets are the exact same phonetic pronunciations, but written slightly different to visually distinguish them, is the only complication. But that they are designed specifically to distinguish between Japanese and foreign words is just brilliant. Their Kanji…

> two [...] alphabets in Japanese They are syllabaries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllabary > distinguish between Japanese and foreign words There are occasionally Japanese words written in katakana (e.g. ラーメン) and foreign words written in hiragana (e.g. たばこ). Also, katakana can be used to emphasize Japanese words (like WE DO in English) (e.g. キミ). > Kanji script [...] is a travesty left over from cave paintings…

>There is no evidence that Chinese characters come from cave paintings.

Sarcasm.

>Also, katakana can be used to emphasize Japanese words (like WE DO in English) (e.g. キミ).

Cool, didn't know that.

>...they agree that the writing system makes sense and delivers a lot of meaning in a small space.

I've done translation work with Greek, Spanish, English and dealt with Japanese in college (helping translate/edit my Japanese room mate's papers), and why on paper, many things may look a certain way, on a computer screen it's an entirely different world.

All the Spanish and Greek stuff took up more space, Spanish especially. But with the Japanese, the keyboards took up more space and were slow to type with. So, the comparisons between space and efficiency and all kinds of other metrics are not universal.

>But some parts are harder, like distinguishing long consonants and vowels, politeness levels for verbs and nouns, dropping subjects and other information implied by context, and the postfix word order.

Sure, but this is all subjective to you. "Harder" by definition is subjective. So you can't claim your statement (is harder) is any more or less valid than mine (is easier).

>"...in fact if you don't do this, you sound noticeably non-native."

So? Not a single Japanese could pronounce "level" or "really" correctly that I ever met. The details that iron out an accent are irrelevant in the question "is this language hard to learn".

>"I think overall, Japanese is okay to learn at a casual/colloquial level."

I guess I should have put that in my post. But again, I have relatives and friends that speak fluently and they've never had an issue saying it was harder than other languages. And everyone polyglot I've met said English was very hard.

All subjective.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I really strongly disagree with this. I've studied Japanese for 6 years, Chinese for 3 and am currently in Japan. Some of your comments come off as extremely ignorant. For example, neither the kana syllabries nor the logographic kanji system are alphabets. The distinction between Hiragana and Katakana is more of a distinction between emphasis on sound (Katakana) and normal writing of words. Katakana is use…

> Kanji / hanzi is absolutely not a travesty. In fact, Japanese would be nearly unusable without it (in my opinion). How is it possible to communicate in speech?

Exactly. People can understand each other just fine without explaining which word they are using in Kanji. Korea was able to jettison Chinese logograms (Hanja) entirely from its education standards, and the only reason Kanji remains is due to tradition instead of any inherent superiority over the syllabaries.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. As someone with knowledge on the subject, the post I responded to was just incorrect. Alphabet is a specific term with a specific meaning and connotations. It's factually incorrect and misleading to call anything other than romaji that Japanese uses an Alphabet. Very little intuition about alphabets applies because they're just not alphabets. The issues with Kanji are unqiue to Japanese. Chin…

In commonly spoken English we have one word for alphabet, and that is alphabet. Just like a doctor can say "oesophagus" for "throat" doesn't mean saying "throat" is wrong. Kanji is an alphabet to us, so it hiragana and katakana in every Japanese class I took in America. The wikipedia article on hiragana[0] call it "syllabaries", which may be technically accurate, I would consider this pedantic for the average America…

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Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#184
post #95
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you comment on whether racism is still a thing in Japanese society?

It’s still there at an institutional and cultural level - I think the most glaring example of this is the amount of landlords who either openly or discreetly (with a phone call to your realtor) will not rent property to foreigners.

> will not rent rent property to foreigners.

Unmerited animosity towards foreigners is called xenophobia, not racism.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#185

I love living and working in Japan, but I wouldn't recommend moving here unless you're committed to becoming fluent in Japanese and integrating into the culture. This is probably mostly true for any country one could move, but Japanese is one, if not the hardest language to learn for native English speakers. I do, however, recommend everyone visit! Japan is a beautiful country with a unique culture and has something…

I used to live in Japan and I found the language fairly easy to learn (compared to other languages I have attempted, like French, Spanish, German, and Finnish). Japanese is consistent in its pronunciation and grammar, doesn’t have all the tenses English has, and uses tons of English words. As an engineer, Japanese made a lot of sense to me. The only real difficulty I had with it was reading Kanji.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#186
post #18

Are there really a lot of these people? Don't get me wrong, Japan is truly a wonderful place to visit but living there seems like playing life on "hard mode" as compared to other countries: new language and culture, never truly becoming "one of them", and relatively poor working conditions. Unless you have existing ties to the place, it seems hard to believe that people will move in droves; although I can understand…

> Unless you have existing ties to the place, it seems hard to believe that people will move in droves; although I can understand a few people moving. The opposite is also true. You can grow so bored of western culture that Japan become interesting with its different way of life. It is however quite a bit "western" in some ways (compared to China, some of the middle east, etc.) so moving there can sound like a challe…

Is this born out of experience or is it from looking outside? Differences are fun to experience, hence why people go on vacations if they can. But enduring those differences when you've had a long day and just want a drink or coffee to relax, it isn't that fun. Living in Japan is more than adopting a new language. And even if you fit in with the culture, you'll never be one of them. I really don't think you'll get how hard that is until you experience it first hand, and being Japan, not fitting in isn't "cool" or "interesting," it's a dire place to be in.

I'm not white in America, so I know how that feels, but I'm not delusional: the times I've visited Japan I stick out like a sore thumb and it's the usual glares/distrust here x100. Seoul was a bit worse from than Tokyo from that perspective, but using it as a proxy because they have similar attitudes towards foreigners, the only time I actually felt visible was when I was with my former classmate who was Korean. The difference was night and day, the night before I was ignored to the face by a street vendor, the next day with her, a street vendor offered us free food after buying a delicious set of fried snacks.

If you want to experience an Asian metropolis, I recommend Singapore because diversity is something they sort of believe...and uphold by force. I fit in because I look malay or indo, but if you're white, you'll be a minority but not enough to feel out of place for the most part. Otherwise, go if you have an SO in Japan so you can be the token foreigner girlfriend/boyfriend or something. Don't go and live alone.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#187
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily the work culture is slowly changing, at least regarding the matter of OT: following the suicide of a new recruit of Dentsu that was ruled to be a death by overwork, several companies started to ask their employees to refrain from doing OT. However, as an engineer, it is sometimes quite frustrating to work with colleagues who do not want to try anything by themselves, because they want to be taught everything.…

>However, as an engineer, it is sometimes quite frustrating to work with colleagues who do not want to try anything by themselves, because they want to be taught everything. This seems to come from the way they learn things at school: the teacher is always right, because he's the teacher; you need to listen to your seniors, because they know more than you. This leads to new recruits being taught everything by senior…

Hate to go off on a tangent, but there was that article about how NIH lead I think nextdoor to abandon cron and make their own alternative. I wish we could do both, be willing to learn and understand history and context but be willing to break the mold. We seem to be off in the reinvent everything mode because we all want to innovate, even when that innovation is unwarranted.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, being explicitly denied service because you're not Japanese. You might not see these things as a tourist but live there and you'll see it. There are very few such places. I haven't seen any myself, and I don't know first-hand anyone who has seen any themselves either. The rare cases I heard about were all a shortcut made to essentially mean "can't serve people that don't speak Japanese". As in, they di…

It happened to me twice (as a tourist, overall being seven weeks in Japan). My strong feeling was that the proprietor of those places were afraid that they won't be able to communicate appropriately and that they may lose face if they can't make me happy. I never felt discrimanted against, really. On the other hand I had fantastic experiences walking into places, where nobody spoke an English word, throwing a hearty…

I once said "oishii!" in a coffee shop and the guy looked at me like I was trying too hard.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#189
post #18

Are there really a lot of these people? Don't get me wrong, Japan is truly a wonderful place to visit but living there seems like playing life on "hard mode" as compared to other countries: new language and culture, never truly becoming "one of them", and relatively poor working conditions. Unless you have existing ties to the place, it seems hard to believe that people will move in droves; although I can understand…

> Are there really a lot of these people?

Nope. Just like tiny fraction of a fraction of silicon valley. A ridiculous small portion of americans ( even in silicon valley ) move to japan and vice versa. But it gets a lot of clicks and views.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#190
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> two [...] alphabets in Japanese They are syllabaries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllabary > distinguish between Japanese and foreign words There are occasionally Japanese words written in katakana (e.g. ラーメン) and foreign words written in hiragana (e.g. たばこ). Also, katakana can be used to emphasize Japanese words (like WE DO in English) (e.g. キミ). > Kanji script [...] is a travesty left over from cave paintings…

> There is no evidence that Chinese characters come from cave paintings. Sarcasm. > Also, katakana can be used to emphasize Japanese words (like WE DO in English) (e.g. キミ). Cool, didn't know that. > ...they agree that the writing system makes sense and delivers a lot of meaning in a small space. I've done translation work with Greek, Spanish, English and dealt with Japanese in college (helping translate/edit my Japa…

I'm currently married to a Chinese born wife who has lived in the US for the past 15 years, but spent most of that time in academia with other foreign born academics. She had developed a habit of saying "BE CAREFUL!" very loudly whenever I was driving and something unexpected happened in traffic. I was patient at first, hoping that she would come to understand that I am quite careful (I'm a bit of a stereotypical asian driver myself) but one day, I snapped at her when the car ahead of me abruptly braked to a stop, then backed towards me to parallel park in a spot they'd spotted last moment.

We did talk about it, but whenever we argue, it seems that she thinks I'm lying when I tell her that saying "Be careful!" in that context sounds like an admonishment.

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