Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#61

Post by naravara » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:35 PM UTC

autokad wrote: post #30

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

> "he 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable." Not really, the fee's much of big tech often puts on people are draconian, and they are able to continue doing so because of the monopolies they hold. 30% is huge. Just try running a business when you loose 30% strait off the top line. > "Want to bypass that cut?" break the monopolies. The cuts big tech muscle on their constituents actually hurts them in…

>Just try running a business when you loose 30% strait off the top line.

Brick and mortar retail does just that. Even online retail, once you factor in the costs of maintaining a secure payment system, managing fulfillment, customer service, etc. it winds up adding up to a lot.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#62

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:35 PM UTC

gst wrote: post #29

microtonal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. I can understand the argument that they should accept the 30% cut to be listed in and downloa…

> However, an iOS device is also the property of its owner and the owner should be allowed (morally) to install software outside the app store. Even if that comes with potential security problems. Android already permits this. The owner has the choice between iOS and Android. Why should Apple change their policies (and lose revenue) if the majority of users appear to be sufficiently happy with those restrictions (oth…

[deleted]

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#63

Post by opencl » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:35 PM UTC

iokanuon wrote: post #31

dragonwriter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they are talking about disabling it system wide vs disabling it for a single application, is this not pretty irresponsible? It's not a system wide setting, it's an app-specific setting (that is, it's for the app you wish to be able to install other apps.) Setting it to “allow” for the default browser and leaving it that way is something of an issue, though.

In my experience its only an app-specific setting on Samsung devices. Their phones give you a prompt for disabling the setting "just this one time".

It's app-specific for any phone running Oreo or newer.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#64

Post by orf » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

microtonal wrote: post #39

jryan49 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will most likely be scammed into downloading spyware.

Which is a valuable lesson - a lesson in learning to be a rational, critical, grown-up human being. Or we could educate them and it might never happen. Also, let's not forget that many closed system are spyware already. Many of us became deeply involved in tech because some person (thanks Pat Volkerding!) or organization gave us a system were we could do whatever the hell we wanted.

> Which is a valuable lesson - a lesson in learning to be a rational, critical, grown-up human being.

Well... you can phrase it like some life lesson, sure. In reality 1% of 3 million kids clicking on 'Free vbux!!' and converting is 30,000 kids having malware ridden phones, doing god knows what to god knows who.

Is increasing the profits of malware distributors by so much really worth some hand-wavy "teach kids to become a grown up" lesson?

Also, it's not just the kids. By any margin.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#65

Post by drivingmenuts » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

peatmoss wrote: post #20

I miss the idea that a platform, applications, and marketplace were not a vertical stack owned by one entity. As a consumer, I’d love to buy a phone, not a content distribution straight jacket.

The monolithic stacks are targeting the "average" person, who just wants to get a thing done, rather than worry about the how to get to the point where you can do a thing. Those stacks are great for that sort of thing: pay small fee without thinking about it, really, and then just do the thing.

That all falls apart if you're an over-thinker, penny-wise, or a skeptic, though. By virtue of having some tech-savvy, you are automatically sort-of excluded from the target marketing for most platform/app/marketplace stacks. You want to pick and chose to try and gain efficiency or cost-savings or whatever.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#66

Post by jonathanyc » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

maxsilver wrote: post #37

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

"Visa and Mastercard not only created the device used for payments, but funded the R&D for it, widely deployed all of the payment readers, created the entire ecosystem of businesses that use it, support all of this infrastructure (for hundreds of millions of users). So, a 30% cut of every purchase made using a Visa card is more than reasonable."

Yep. The difference is that even though your choice of payment network is still relatively limited, there at least is some genuine competition on price. The Android/iOS duopoly seems to have become stuck at a particularly bad Nash equilibrium. 30% would never survive in a competitive market.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#67

Post by microtonal » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:36 PM UTC

gst wrote: post #29

microtonal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. I can understand the argument that they should accept the 30% cut to be listed in and downloa…

> However, an iOS device is also the property of its owner and the owner should be allowed (morally) to install software outside the app store. Even if that comes with potential security problems. Android already permits this. The owner has the choice between iOS and Android. Why should Apple change their policies (and lose revenue) if the majority of users appear to be sufficiently happy with those restrictions (oth…

I won't deny that there are many many users that do not care. However, I disagree that there is a real choice in the current duopoly. Android allows you to install applications outside the app store. However, you trade this possibility for continuous data harvesting by Google and only a limited window of updates.

So, the choice is largely:

some freedom ^ (privacy | long-term updates)

Freedom, privacy, and long-term updates are all important to me, so there is no real choice.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#68

Post by naravara » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

microtonal wrote: post #39

jryan49 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will most likely be scammed into downloading spyware.

Which is a valuable lesson - a lesson in learning to be a rational, critical, grown-up human being. Or we could educate them and it might never happen. Also, let's not forget that many closed system are spyware already. Many of us became deeply involved in tech because some person (thanks Pat Volkerding!) or organization gave us a system were we could do whatever the hell we wanted.

>Many of us became deeply involved in tech because some person (thanks Pat Volkerding!) or organization gave us a system were we could do whatever the hell we wanted.

Surely you can understand why letting people do whatever the hell they want might not be the best thing when people's personal and financial data is on the line.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#69

Post by dangjc » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

They are thugs, using their market power to extract more than their fair share. In a competitive market, you may gain an advantage because you came up with the first fancy cafe chain, but then other coffee shops are built and keep the price of fancy coffee at cost plus some reasonable margin.

Apple and Google have raked in tens of billions from their app stores, which has long since surpassed the cost of building them. If the market had fair competition, we would have many other viable app stores, not unlike the way we have so many apps. This is why EU antitrust is starting to scrutinize Google for forcing its app store to be bundled with Android.

Re: Netflix is the latest company to try bypassing Apple’s app store

#70

Post by alienreborn » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

bepotts wrote: post #10

Apple and Google not only created the device and funded the R & D for the features, but also created the APIs, the tools, the infrastructure, and attracted the (hundreds of millions of) users. The 30% cut they ask of developers is more than reasonable. Want to bypass that cut? Build a web app and make it play well on mobile. If you want to run it on Android and iOS devices, then I don't really see how anyone can say…

Straight out of r/HailCorporate