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The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

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Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#21

Post by fluxmglrbly »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #5

Having participated in a lot of countercultural gatherings, I was initially intrigued about Burning Man. But if you hear about an event from the mass media, instead of through word of mouth in your own small countercultural community, chances are that the event is already past its prime. After hearing lots of old-timers talk about how Burning Man was in the 1990s, and then hearing more recent attendees describe their…

> After hearing lots of old-timers talk about how Burning Man was in the 1990s

There were people already saying "it's not cool any more" even in the 90s. That was in fact how I first heard about Burning Man, due to someone complaining about it not being cool anymore, around 97 or so. Very likely people have pretty much always said it.

It's like the old joke about how the first car race happened the day someone built the second car:

    Q: When did someone first say Burning Man wasn't cool any more?
    A: The day after the second Burning Man.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#22

Post by fiter »

iamleppert wrote: post #16

I’m turned off from going by the fact that it seems the only friends I know that go are a narrow demographic of your typical techie. They plan their entire year around it and act like it’s their sole purpose in life. Honestly I don’t want to end up like that, thinking that the real world offers no thrill or spectacle or surprises such that I need to reduce my life down into a few weeks in the desert at the end of the…

Some things you can only reasonably do once a year, and I think it'd be a disservice to them to not do some planning. I like to think of it like a harvest festival: we've worked all year, let's enjoy some of the fruits of our labor.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#23

Post by alevskaya »

I started and ran a science-oriented theme camp out there for over a decade as an impoverished academic, and a lot of my friends in the Bay Area help build or manage the event. I’m neither rich nor a hippy.

To me, the fundamental idea of the event is that we’ve become divorced from the act of creation and civic participation due to being enmeshed in a highly commodified, transactional society and that it’s worth trying to address that. Most people can’t use a torque-driver or recognize a turnbuckle. But people can learn, and when they get involved in build projects or camps out there they do. They start trying. It’s amateur art hour write very large, but the beauty of it is how many people start trying to make something of their own, sometimes with amazing results.

The event is flawed as hell and always has been, but it remains an astounding expression of labor devoted to the amateur’s search for meaning through creation. It’s art will never appeal to the traditional critic who worries more about the statement of art than it’s artifact. They can look down their noses at the idealism of those who thought to try to make something for once, instead of leaving the important job of art to those who know better, who have the right ideals, the right politics, the right message. We’re going to continue to do carpentry, to make circuit boards, to write software, and to teach others to get involved in the art of trying.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#24

Post by tomc1985 »

iamleppert wrote: post #16

I’m turned off from going by the fact that it seems the only friends I know that go are a narrow demographic of your typical techie. They plan their entire year around it and act like it’s their sole purpose in life. Honestly I don’t want to end up like that, thinking that the real world offers no thrill or spectacle or surprises such that I need to reduce my life down into a few weeks in the desert at the end of the…

I think that may be more due to the fact that it is a cultural experience much like traveling to a foreign country. I haven't been to any burns but I attend one of the smaller regional events and there's always a culture-shock/reverse-culture-shock aspect to it that can be particularly thrilling.

If your friends are part of any theme camps then they might have events going on throughout the year; there's a burner scene and hanging out with them certainly builds anticipation.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#25

Post by fipple »

Things change, whatever. Burning Man is now it's a luxury art and music maker festival where the rugged conditions are part of the appeal in the same way that they are for Mount Everest. If you want the old Burning Man you'll have to start a new thing.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#26

Post by acomjean »

acconrad wrote: post #3

I've always toyed with the idea of going to Burning Man but I'm turned off by how popular (read: the big, comfy trailers and the stratification of attendees) it has become. Is there a retreat that still is all about art / society-in-a-box?

I never been to either, but the burners in my area also go to firefly. There also are a variety of burning man associated events at other times.

https://www.fireflyartscollective.org

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#27

Post by gammateam »

timr wrote: post #10
gammateam wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After hearing lots of old-timers talk about how Burning Man was in the 1990s But that's part of the meme, just as much as Burning Man's principles invite the criticism The founding members weren't serious about "radical self reliance" as their congregation now repeats without practicing Its also more of a heroin hit for these people, the second hits will never be as good as the first, but its still the first hit fo…

"But that's part of the meme, just as much as Burning Man's principles invite the criticism" And so is this reply. Essentially any event that has substantially changed from its original form/intent has this conversational pattern: Old participant: "$event is past it's prime now." New participant: "Everyone says that, but $event is still popular, and I like it, so they're wrong." Of the two opinions, only the one from…

yes and that's fine

but lets look at the article itself: why is it even written? because it transformed to being more of “the hippest party around” instead of “true experiment in intentional creative community”, despite maintaining both of those experiences for everyone that attends?

I casually hear all of the disdain towards the concept of burning man, and it mostly comes down to the contrived concept which themselves only stand out because of the costs necessary to get there

this festival in particular invites it, and I enjoy the privilege of being able to go

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#28

Post by maerF0x0 »

fiter wrote: post #22
iamleppert wrote: post #16

I’m turned off from going by the fact that it seems the only friends I know that go are a narrow demographic of your typical techie. They plan their entire year around it and act like it’s their sole purpose in life. Honestly I don’t want to end up like that, thinking that the real world offers no thrill or spectacle or surprises such that I need to reduce my life down into a few weeks in the desert at the end of the…

Some things you can only reasonably do once a year, and I think it'd be a disservice to them to not do some planning. I like to think of it like a harvest festival: we've worked all year, let's enjoy some of the fruits of our labor.

But it would be like judging people who work in the field, spending the entire year on the centerpiece and then burning it to the ground after the festival.

Re: The Vanishing Idealism of Burning Man

#30

Post by forgottenpass »

zasz wrote: post #19
iamleppert wrote: post #16

I’m turned off from going by the fact that it seems the only friends I know that go are a narrow demographic of your typical techie. They plan their entire year around it and act like it’s their sole purpose in life. Honestly I don’t want to end up like that, thinking that the real world offers no thrill or spectacle or surprises such that I need to reduce my life down into a few weeks in the desert at the end of the…

I went in 2010 and one of the first people I met there was an advertising exec who said this event was the only time she felt alive. It was really sad.

Hey, at least she has one in her life. That's one more per year than most people.

I'm not trying to pick an argument, or imply most people are emotionally dead inside, but _come on_. You really gotta take an expression about enjoying an escaping from the humdrum of day-to-day life and use it to snark about a person's entire existence?

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