Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#441

Post by m_fayer » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 6:44 PM UTC

dnomad wrote: post #412

m_fayer wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add: we as a society need to start thinking about how to halt the service-ization of everything. The smartphone is a general purpose handheld computer that's been captured and turned into a rent-extraction device by being re-conceptualized as a "service." And the service-bug is spreading. Laptop and desktop computers are in the crosshairs, as are cars and various home appliances. Do we want to live in a world…

> The smartphone is a general purpose handheld computer that's been captured and turned into a rent-extraction device by being re-conceptualized as a "service." Services are indisputably a good thing and they are absolutely the way forwards. There is no reason for anybody to own much of anything and with global middle class approaching 4 billion it's simply not possible for the extremely wasteful concept of "ownershi…

I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I'm not sure I agree with you about ownership, but it's a point worth considering, as are your other points.

Also, I like the idea that it's not services themselves that are the problem, but rather platforms being used to force them down people's throats. Coming up with policy to discourage services seems much more conceptually difficult than rediscovering serious antitrust, a simple oldie-but-goodie.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#442

Post by Mikho » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

Eagerly wait for any big brand to refuse to release on iOS at all due to the tax and being unable to bypass it by an app installation via a web-site. This tyranny that takes the whole margin should definitely end. It's especially painful for any media business where a piece of content has only so many views and stores just take all the margin while adding absolutely zero to distribution, hosting, developing, promoting or engaging with users. It's like Samsung would start demanding a cut from anything used on an iPhone where there is a Samsung display. Stores do not even add value in app discovery and getting new users. They just demand even more money to promote an app in a store to later take yet another cut. Insane situation.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#443

Post by WilliamEdward » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

fjsolwmv wrote: post #332

WilliamEdward wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like that. I think the first thing people should do when making a startup is finding a consistent revenue stream and business model. Most companies are actually more about the model than the idea. Hell, even Nike only makes about 6% of profit on their $100 shoes. They can do this because they have a consistent and reliable business model (aka not advertisement income). It's not even the shoes anymore. it's t…

6% profit after paying the salaries of everyone involved in manufacturing, marketing, and administration, including retailer profit, is quite a lot.

It's just less than people would think because all they get to see is the $100 price tag.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#444

Post by WilliamEdward » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:04 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #269

WilliamEdward wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like that. I think the first thing people should do when making a startup is finding a consistent revenue stream and business model. Most companies are actually more about the model than the idea. Hell, even Nike only makes about 6% of profit on their $100 shoes. They can do this because they have a consistent and reliable business model (aka not advertisement income). It's not even the shoes anymore. it's t…

Just to provide a reference on the $6/Nike shoes, because I didn't believe it.... https://solecollector.com/news/2014/12/how-much-it-costs-nik...

Thank you for that. I believe the source i read included marketing in the expenses, but that was long ago.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#445

Post by compostable » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

tankerdude wrote: post #391

compostable wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm, we are going to have to check your credentials. In your opinion what is the best Chinese restaurant in either LA or SF?

Dim Sum: Joy Luck Palace (Sunnyvale). LA, the one that’s very good is Five Star Seafood (SGV off of Del Mar). 888 in Valley a little east of that place. Don’t go to Elite, Ocean Star, or mission, IMO. They are kind of on par with Jou Luck Palace. Koi Palace(Daly City) and Flower Lounge(Millbrae), Mayflower(Milpitas) I would stay away from. Seafood: Newport Seafood(SGV). The restaurants listed above are decent for the…

Your credentials have been accepted.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#446

Post by jjeaff » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

Buge wrote: post #365

jjeaff wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were the case, no, nothing wrong... But apple is making a huge markup on their $1200 phones. They aren't making up a loss with their app store. They're just piling on the cash.

Would it be wrong of apple to make the app store fee 5% and then increase the phone price whatever percent is necessary to make up that loss? Would that be considered piling on the cash?

At least then, buyers get a more realistic view of total cost of ownership up front, rather than hiding the rest of the profits in the pricing of other people's apps.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#447

Post by kartan » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:02 PM UTC

1123581321 wrote: post #435

kartan wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This suggests that a high revenue share of a software sale is viable in a way that a high revenue share of a truck load is not. This is a good point. But I would rather see this apps more highly taxed than to allow monopolistic empires to grow.

Sorry, are you saying you’d like App Store software taxed enough that sales are low and it’s not viable for Apple to make money, forcing them to allow an unregulated open market if they want a meaningful number of apps on their phones? It’s an interesting idea, but I think the opportunity cost early on would have been that entire software market. And the opportunity cost now would be killing a large percentage of bus…

> Sorry, are you saying you’d like App Store software taxed enough that sales are low and it’s not viable for Apple to make money, forcing them to allow an unregulated open market if they want a meaningful number of apps on their phones?

No. :)

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#448

Post by 1123581321 » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:06 PM UTC

kartan wrote: post #447

1123581321 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, are you saying you’d like App Store software taxed enough that sales are low and it’s not viable for Apple to make money, forcing them to allow an unregulated open market if they want a meaningful number of apps on their phones? It’s an interesting idea, but I think the opportunity cost early on would have been that entire software market. And the opportunity cost now would be killing a large percentage of bus…

> Sorry, are you saying you’d like App Store software taxed enough that sales are low and it’s not viable for Apple to make money, forcing them to allow an unregulated open market if they want a meaningful number of apps on their phones? No. :)

:)

Well, what are you saying? I seriously don’t understand what you meant.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#449

Post by CamperBob2 » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 8:20 PM UTC

orbitur wrote: post #340

rohit2412 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how is Apple's walled app store any better than the alternative of at&t controlled app store? They can keep their 30% cut if they allow me to sideload apps from external sources.

> And how is Apple's walled app store any better than the alternative of at&t controlled app store? I don't know if you've used an iPhone, but do you really think AT&T's walled garden would have anything approaching the quality of the best apps on the App Store?

He or she is probably just young. No one who was there would ask a question like that, even rhetorically.

Sadly, people have forgotten how much life sucked for mobile developers before the iPhone. Apple's contribution is reflected in various peoples' prejudices and agendas, but not in history books. Only Nixon could go to China, and only Jobs could have stared down AT&T from a position of weakness.

I'm not an Apple partisan, and I'm definitely not going to defend the concept of locking a general-purpose computing platform away from its own users, but I'll always give him credit for that.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#450

Post by duxup » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 9:31 PM UTC

MattSayar wrote: post #430

duxup wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you find Yelp helpful? I find Yelp so strange with complaints about how someplace that really doesn't do someone's favorite food style gets some stupid reviews.... or they wish a place was more like a place that is 3x more expensive (how is that fair?). I just have no clue where anyone is coming from. We had a Neapolitan pizza place open up in in our neighborhood. Great ingredients, amazing Neapolitan pizza. It wa…

Unfortunately that involves actually reading the reviews instead of looking at the rating.

It's a lot to dig though and not everyone is as obvious that they really want crappy pizza for $5 and went to the wrong restaurant as others might be.