Live data from Hacker News

Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

bloomberg.com

161–170 of 223 posts

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#161
post #19

The Japanese (and Korean) work culture, or at least the external perception thereof is the biggest factor that turns me and others off. Who wants to work most of their life and put in twelve or more hours a day six days a week or more? It's worse than America which is already quite bad and off-putting. I don't know what it is about hard work that people have fetishised, but it's not all that it's cut out to be and fr…

New law in Korea means workers are limited to 40 hours a week now, with maximum 12 hours overtime at 150% pay.

I work at Korea's biggest tech company and the law is strictly followed.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I really strongly disagree with this. I've studied Japanese for 6 years, Chinese for 3 and am currently in Japan. Some of your comments come off as extremely ignorant. For example, neither the kana syllabries nor the logographic kanji system are alphabets. The distinction between Hiragana and Katakana is more of a distinction between emphasis on sound (Katakana) and normal writing of words. Katakana is use…

I was waiting for a response like this so I wouldn’t have to type it myself. Almost everything that looks simple about Japanese at the beginning is complex and deep underneath. For example, one of the things I was told early on is that pronunciation is easy, since all the sounds already exist in English. First, that’s not even true. Second, if it’s so easy, why have I never met a foreigner with an accent that even I,…

Agreed with everything you said. Japanese pronunciation is easy to hit in the right ballpark because Japanese uses a near-subset of sounds found in English and other common languages. But refining your Japanese pronunciation takes effort and is not something to shrug off. Anyway, here are some examples where I think English-speaking Japanese learners butcher their pronunciation:

* し is [ɕi] (tongue fronter), not [ʃi] (tongue rearer).

* ふ is [ɸɯ] (mouth more open), not [fɯ] (teeth touching lips).

* お is [o] (monophthong), not [ou] (diphthong).

* え is [ɛ], not [eɪ]. (e.g. さけ)

* つ is [tsɯ], not [sɯ]. (e.g. つなみ)

* Anything with the Japanese r. The alveolar flap does exist in American English, though it's not consciously recognized as a distinct sound. Japanese sounds funny but still intelligible when the native [ɾ] is replaced with [ɹ] (English R) or [ʁ] (French R).

* Anything with small y (e.g. kya, nyo, myu) should have a quick [ʲ] sound, not a long [i] sound. e.g. きょうと is [kʲoːto], not [kiouto].

* Vowels are never reduced; きもの is [kimono], not [kəmounou].

* But the appropriate times to suppress vowels entirely. e.g. です, ~ます, して.

* The concept of doubled consonants, not grasping it.

* The concept of long vowels, not grasping it.

* Stress is often on the first syllable, not the second.

* Intonation is flatter than in English.

* How to use high/low/rising/falling tones correctly on particles.

* A natural and even pacing of syllables, not the choppy speech that foreigners seem to exhibit.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#163
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* 2 bedroom in cool neighborhood: $2100/month * office space (3 people) somewhere central, shared facilities, private office: $2000/month * residential gigabit (min 1 year contract): $60/month * food for one month, either eating out or buying decent groceries and cooking: $800/month --- Those are off the top of my head. I'm not very interested in living in a cool neighborhood and rent where I live is more like $1400…

How do restaurant prices compare to grocery prices typically? Do folks tend to go out as often as they do in the US?

Just came back from a trip and most restaurant prices match the US in cities. Cheaper places go for around $6-7/meal. Most end up being around $20/meal (+/- 5).

Obviously cooking at home or snacking ($1-3/snack) from convince stores lowers that amount.

Most prices include tax and there is never a tip.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#164
It sounds like an interesting idea. Certainly Japan is an interesting place. In general I envy those who get to move abroad to work. The adventure appeals to me. These days I might be good enough for it too. It wasn't always that way,but certainly I'm currently one of the more capable engineers on my team. But the ties that bind are too strong still. I will stay here. To those who get to do this, I wish them a good ride.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#165
post #51
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the parent but same situation. Been here 11 years. A lot of people can get around without speaking Japanese, but I don’t recommend it. You’ll get a much more meaningful and deeper experience out of living here if you can converse with everyone. Randomly stopping and bullshitting with a bored old guy for an hour can be quite fun! Sadly the developer pay here is pretty dismal, even more so if you come with US expec…

There are other places in the world that offer good public transportation, food, friendly people, etc. Unless you are attracted to Japanese culture in particular it would be so much easier to move somewhere else to experience living abroad.

The only other such places seem to be in Western Europe, and perhaps a few other Asian places like Hong Kong.

America isn't on the list; public transit is terrible, food is expensive, and health insurance is ridiculous. It's a bad place to raise children and a bad place to retire unless you want to move to a backwards southern state.

For me, I'm thinking pretty seriously about exploring options in living abroad, and Japan and Western Europe easily top the list, but the cost of living in Japan seems like it's quite a bit lower as long as you don't expect an American lifestyle. The lack of crime in Japan should make it quite possible to live in low-cost places, whereas in America and to some extent Europe living in low-cost places exposes you to much more crime.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#166
This sounds oddly familiar to me, I worked in Japan for a year and a half despite taking a large paycut from my job back in the US because I wanted to explore something new. I ultimately left to Silicon Valley ironically because they were offering nearly 4x the pay and better learning opportunities (the Japanese compensation structure is not kind to new grads and SV has ridiculous COL). However I loved my time in Japan and my ultimate career goal is to somehow move back there but with a better opportunity. Good to see some people finding gainful employment over there, it really is a great place to live.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#167
post #142

Japan is not anime.

It kind of is, especially in a relative sense. I was in Japan for a few weeks this year. Some of the unique anime things that I found in Japan that I don't see in North America:

* Anime girls (specifically Azur Lane) plastered all over Yamanote Line trains

* Shops playing music from animes I've watched and other recognizable Jpop music

* Anime-themed cafes (Gundam, Card Captor Sakura, etc.)

* Stores for secondhand anime goods

* Rentable display cases to sell your anime goods

* Anime mascots printed on public banners

* Gaming arcades with anime goods

* Conversely, the way that cities, train stations, and other scenes are depicted in anime is fairly accurate to how Japan looks like in real life

This is not to say that Japan is 100% anime, because that is obviously false. All I'm saying is that if you want to see a place that upholds the anime lifestyle more than anywhere else in the world, then Japan is the only answer.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#168
People are mentioning pricing for living there. I just visited, so not the same, but noticed some things.

1. Many things try to round out to a flat amount (¥100 instead ¥253). Some places don't.

2. Cash is king. Many places refuse to accept credit or contactless payments if you carry cash. Some places only accept Cash. You can see this when you look up places on Google Maps.

3. Coins are used for denominations of 1 cent up to $5. $10 is the first bill you get so be prepared to carry lots of coins. Also, I still don't understand the reason for it, but they usually refuse to pay things using two methods (e.g. to get rid of the 35(!!) ¥1 coins I had).

4. Tax is usually included or a second price, higher price is shown with the tax included. As in #1 you may see on receipts with tax included. E.g. ¥2000 first shown as total with a smaller number of ¥1740 as sub total and then the final amount with tax included (same as total).

5. There was never a tip where I went and I believe it's not done pretty much anywhere.

6. Many things in major cities are being adjusted for the olympics so things are actually fairly nice for foreigners to get around.

7. Besides going between major areas most train cards can be used in most other places. Assuming you land in Tokyo (e.g. HND) you can get a Suica card for the subway and put ¥2000 on it. It takes face ¥500 as a deposit on the card. I used the same card in Tokyo, Kyoto, and Osaka.

sn: That card can be moved to your phone in to Apple Pay if you switch to Japan region in your iOS settings (language and etc doesn't need to change). Apple doesn't require FaceID for it so you can swipe to enter subway super easily with just your phone. Once you do this you get the ¥500 deposit on the card back to use without returning the card.

8. Neat trick for changing prices is put a decimal after first two numbers since your in ¥100 == $0.90 != $1.00, but it's close enough.

9. Restaurants often have english menus, especially in cities, but it's much better experience to be able to read normal menus. At least I'm assuming given I know basically no Japanese.

10. Food and restaurants are comparable to the US. Cheaper meals are $6-7 where nicer sit down restaurants are around $16-25.

11. As far as cheap food: FamilyMart bread is a must try. Also the various Rice+Seaweed+Protein meals are cool.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If in the US, a black man is 2X more likely to have committed a murder than a white man, is it not worth associating with them? This is absolutely the root of racism. Acting out of fear and self-preservation in a self-sustaining loop. The most insidious kind of racism to me isn't the mindless hatred that you sometimes see. It's the thoughtful, logical-sounding explanations that justify the behavior.

Insurance companies charge men more than women for car insurance because the data shows they're more risky. Is that gender discrimination? There's a line somewhere between -isms and data driven decisions.

Is it gender discrimination: Yes. Is it legally protected gender discrimination: Also yes!

Welcome to systemic problems!

"Data Driven Decisions" are almost always about "this consumer/user group will probably do X". This is discriminatory against people in the group who don't/won't do X. Insurance companies (and college admissions boards, and police deciding where to send officers) do their best to try and remove broad categories (race, sex, etc) and tailor their data to a specific outcome, but that doesn't mean data can't be used to discriminate. "Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics" after all.

There is a line, but it moves, and it's blurry, and sometimes it's not really a line but more of a circle. The point is, sometimes these things are bad/discriminatory but they're allowed to keep happening because that's how we've always done things or something to that effect.

Dealing with people as groups is at the heart of -isms and stereotyping/discrimination. It's also how data/statistics tend to treat people.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If in the US, a black man is 2X more likely to have committed a murder than a white man, is it not worth associating with them? This is absolutely the root of racism. Acting out of fear and self-preservation in a self-sustaining loop. The most insidious kind of racism to me isn't the mindless hatred that you sometimes see. It's the thoughtful, logical-sounding explanations that justify the behavior.

I don’t really care who you choose to associate or not associate with regardless of the reason. If a landlord doesn’t want me because I’m a foreigner, that’s fine with me. If I ask why and he explains the risk profile, I can offer to pay for my 2-year lease up front to mitigate the risk.

Yes, but you won't even get that opportunity. It's flat out not an option.
Post reply on HN