Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was in college in the 70s, so yeah, it was a fun time for me when I think back on it. Who wouldn’t want to hear Aerosmith live in a club with maybe 80 people there before their first album. But I walked to class cold and wet on many days. Gortex hadn’t been invented and I couldn’t afford a car. When I got my first real job I bought a car, but I carried a toolbox in the trunk. Cars broke down frequently and with no…
Perhaps the deficit of happiness can be better explained by one of Peter Thiel's most excellent reductionist observations: The countercultural in the '60s was the hippies. You know, we landed on the moon in July of 1969. Woodstock started three weeks later, and with the benefit of hindsight, that’s when progress ended, and the hippies took over the country. [1][2] Perhaps, for too long, the left has engulfed and held…
Why Prosperity Has Increased but Happiness Has Not
231–240 of 264 posts
Re: Why Prosperity Has Increased but Happiness Has Not
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your “median earner with a spouse and 2 kids” is quite different from the median household. The (gross) income in a median household is $59k.
The point was that one worker can't effectively pay for a household anymore.
Not even in the 40s and 50s could you live anywhere you wanted, while owning a house on a sole income. Like today, the houses affordable to one income were only found in certain places and only those who were willing to move (or were lucky enough to have been born) where housing was affordable were able to own them.
From what I recall, the homeownership rate in the 1940s was only around 45%. Owning your home wasn't anywhere near as common as it is today. To say that people with one income could afford their home back then is simply cherry-picking those who could, ignoring everyone else.
Re: Why Prosperity Has Increased but Happiness Has Not
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was in college in the 70s, so yeah, it was a fun time for me when I think back on it. Who wouldn’t want to hear Aerosmith live in a club with maybe 80 people there before their first album. But I walked to class cold and wet on many days. Gortex hadn’t been invented and I couldn’t afford a car. When I got my first real job I bought a car, but I carried a toolbox in the trunk. Cars broke down frequently and with no…
Ubiquitous discrimination, bigotry, and prejudice made it harder for many to be middle class like I was. When I hear my parents talk about growing up in the segregated south in the 50s, there is nothing about it that makes me think - "wow life was so much better back then".
Re: Why Prosperity Has Increased but Happiness Has Not
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
I dont get the desire for huge houses - finding a nice 1500sqft home is hard - yes the extra space is great, but I gotta heat and cool that space. Beyond that - in 1948, radio was something everyone hard, Television was a luxury, a home phone was pretty universal, owning a car less so, even electric coffee pots were seen less often - no smart phones, tablets or home computers - though many had a typewriter. People wr…
The thing is though the whole "kids these days with their fancy TV and cable and monthly bills!" is almost becoming outdated, and was only a "thing" for a few decades. Now I can replace all of that with a single device and single monthly bill - a device I need to have professionally anyways to participate in most of the economy. My slightly younger millenial friends probably have monthly recurring expenses not a whol…
There is a convincing argument however to me, that the poor of 2018, have a better existence and are better connected to the world that the poor of 1948.
Re: Why Prosperity Has Increased but Happiness Has Not
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Person A says prosperity not increased for the middle-class since the 1970's, person B says it has. Do they have to rely on historical data, or is there some experiment they could perform to determine who is right? For example, suppose I offered 10 people the opportunity to live like people lived in the 1970's. I would subsidise their housing and education costs, but they would pay more for clothes and food and air t…
I was in college in the 70s, so yeah, it was a fun time for me when I think back on it. Who wouldn’t want to hear Aerosmith live in a club with maybe 80 people there before their first album. But I walked to class cold and wet on many days. Gortex hadn’t been invented and I couldn’t afford a car. When I got my first real job I bought a car, but I carried a toolbox in the trunk. Cars broke down frequently and with no…
Gore-tex was invented in 1969 but was hardly necessary. Wool has always worked extremely well and still does: polyester was pretty good except in northern USA. I lived in the south and wore predominantly cotton: Levi jeans and cotton t-shirts were our uniform in the summer; winter we bought a jacket and lived with it.
In 1971 I bought a used American car with everything on it for $300. My East Indian college roommate loved to ride in it and very quickly got a license and car of his own. I later drove my $300 car from Texas to New York via the Midwest and DC to graduate school. I later drove that car to work and school around DC. I had tools but rarely needed them except for maintenance. The car was extremely reliable and needed only tuneups and tires. I gave it to a friend when I bought another car.
You didn't (and still don't) need a cell phone. It was (and is) easy to get help from strangers.
A car accident can kill you at 35 mph but they usually didn't (and usually don't). Cars are safer now and I appreciate that, but they weren't _that_ unsafe: people would not have driven them otherwise.
You complain about carrying a map and a zip code book - you should still (I do), since your phone or network could fail at any time. But you don't b/c in your heart you believe that you can rely on the kindness of strangers!
Medicine today is not much better than it was back then. Trauma care _is_ improved (the lessons of Vietnam were absorbed). But antibiotics worked better back then than today and other than antivirals and statins, the use of drugs hasn't improved much. As someone once said, doctors got no respect until antibiotics came along and, were they taken away, doctors would not get much respect now.
The remnants of the polio epidemics was still present in students of the 1950s (Salk developed his vaccine in 1952 and I was vaccinated ~1957). I too had classmates with polio braces, but polio in the USA was stopped by the vaccination campaigns before the 1970s.
People didn't die of rabies in the 1970s unless it was untreated.
People didn't die of TB in the 1970s unless it was unattended and/or advanced before treatment.
Smallpox was wiped out and routine immunization halted in 1970. The only cholera pandemics were offshore USA (e.g., the El Tor pandemic in Indonesia->Pakistan in the '70's).
I too carried punch cards (I started in the 60's) and was glad to do so: programming turned into a career. 4 years later in the mid-70's I had a terminal and multiple computers available in a network.
3 TV channels was plenty: I got the news and entertainment too, although after awhile I began to notice TV was turning into something akin to the "Bullshit Web" of today:
https://www.metafilter.com/175703/The-Bullshit-Web
VCRs were about $1000 in 1975 but they were available used for only hundreds of dollars. I have a used one that runs still today! In comparison my first CD player died after 3 years.
Neither discrimination nor bigotry nor prejudice were ubiquitous but they _were_ still present. Your description of prejudice fits the southern USA of the '50's, NOT the '70's.
Indeed my grandparents were small farmers (sharecroppers) and their and their children's (my parents') lives were hard. But the opportunities my parents had during their time were enormous and their lives were rich and memorable.
It probably remains true even today that antibiotics are man's most significant improvement of the last century.
But in summary I find your description of the 70s is off by fully 20 years.
Re: Why Prosperity Has Increased but Happiness Has Not
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those hippies brought us Apple computer and the Internet. What have conservatives contributed other than environmental destruction? Legit question.
I'm very far to the left, but the military made almost all the major inventions that silicon valley has packaged up for consumer use. The iPhone is nothing but a collection of technologies designed for war. GPS, small cameras, the internet, ect were all designed by the military not by Silicon Valley.
Re: Why Prosperity Has Increased but Happiness Has Not
#237It would be weird for happiness to increase with prosperity. Think how much more stuff we have than people in the stone age. We should all be delirious with joy, all the time, if we expected happiness to increase with material wealth. Any description of happiness that makes sense would have to say that it's some sort of local comparison, across various axes: how am I doing compared to previously/expectations/other pe…
This is why happiness can only be reached by learning to appreciate what you have. You're much better off pondering how lucky you are to have, and how miserable you'd be without, the things you already have, rather than how happy you'd be with things you don't. The latter is an illusion.
I mean that is exactly what a manager tells you when they cut hours, increase work, and dumpster workplace morale. They have very obvious financial incentive to provide less for the same output and there is no determinable metric of what is "reasonable". You're much better off in this case in actively searching for a better job if it is affecting your day to day life negatively.
People seem to forget that consistently throughout history that the societal shift has fallen so far negatively that it has resulted in the final resort of being solved by violent revolution.
Re: Why Prosperity Has Increased but Happiness Has Not
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Think how much more stuff we have than people in the stone age. We should all be delirious with joy, all the time, if we expected happiness to increase with material wealth. I don’t see how the second sentence follows from the first. Can you explain? What rate of increase are you assuming?
Say there is some function connecting some measure of wealth to some measure of happiness. And the function would be monotonically increasing. Well, the measure of wealth in the modern era ought to be orders of magnitude bigger than it was in the stone age. Back then people had control over something like 10 items. There were no property laws to ensure you kept them, either. If you got a minor cut it could get infect…
This is what I don't understand. Why should this make happiness "orders of magnitude bigger"? Isn’t it possible happiness has increased, just not by orders of magnitude?
Re: Why Prosperity Has Increased but Happiness Has Not
#239The title is a little out of date. Prosperity has been increasing in the 20th century, but has not increased for a few decades. Sure, crap like gadgets is now cheaper, but buying a house, giving your kids an education, and so on have increased. In the 40s and 50s a middle class household could get by just fine (and the house be bought) by a single income earner. Such a house now would be on the verge of bankruptcy. A…
Thus we have weird and shapeable metrics of varying use even without pushing an agenda. What do you call a tiny supercomputer that were previously unavailable to even governments more expensive healthcare and housing? Using 1940s terms a homeless person with a cellphone would be the richest man in the world as it would be priceless given the ungodly expense and time to catch up to it.
Utility is technically the true way to measure but good luck unambiguously quantifying it, much less in a way everyone could agree with.
Re: Why Prosperity Has Increased but Happiness Has Not
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
Households today spend more on cell phones and communication but also spend less on fine china, dress clothes and food. When you net out all the pluses and minuses households today spend much more on housing, healthcare, daycare, transportation (two cars, for two jobs) and education. When you look closely the two bed, two bath detached home it’s likely in a school district that is underperforming and while the home m…
If you maintain a 1920s lifestyle today, you probably could work just a few hours a week. Thing is, nobody wants that kind of a lifestyle.
People lived in homes both rented and owned, there were few big flats of apartments. They didn't have cars but used bikes and public transport.
They had comparable quality food if not better. Ate somewhat less meat. Slept better and longer. Worked similar or shorter hours. (with exceptions)
More worked physical jobs, but a sizable number ran office jobs.
They tended to be more locally sociable and active I suspect too.
Fewer went to get higher education.