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24-core CPU and I can’t type an email – part two

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Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email – part two

#51

It's tangential here, but, seriously, let me ask: For those of us here with > 15 years in the business, when's the last time you really felt a BIG uptick in performance or responsiveness from a new computer upgrade? I buy a new laptop every 3-4 years, and I buy a nice one, but generally speaking I feel like we've been kind of flat in terms of usable power for a while. 6 or 8 years ago I switched to an SSD, and THAT w…

For my personal computing needs I recently upgraded from the combination of an ancient i7 920 quad core desktop and a quad core Haswell laptop to a Ryzen 2700X desktop and a pile of lovely disposable X220 Thinkpads.

On the one hand, for software that's not complete garbage in terms of optimization (scientific software, video/audio software, games, my own code) the difference is staggering, I hadn't felt a change this drastic since I moved from Pentium 1 to Pentium 3. On the other hand, I now know that there is no amount of resources that will make a modern web browser or Electron app run well.

The good news is that now that I feel I deserve good performance I've made an effort to get rid of most of the crap. Apart from disabling JS etc. by default and blocking everything I possibly can I have no solution for the browsers, sadly, but everything else is gone. The Thinkpads all run minimalistic Arch Linux setups and mostly work as thin clients, so overall every system I use is snappy and responsive, for the first time in a decade. I shouldn't have needed a hardware upgrade to return to common sense in computing, but it is good to know that with some discipline and a low tolerance for garbage it is still (mostly) possible to have a reasonable computing experience. Now, if only there was a usable browser out there...

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email – part two

#52

It's tangential here, but, seriously, let me ask: For those of us here with > 15 years in the business, when's the last time you really felt a BIG uptick in performance or responsiveness from a new computer upgrade? I buy a new laptop every 3-4 years, and I buy a nice one, but generally speaking I feel like we've been kind of flat in terms of usable power for a while. 6 or 8 years ago I switched to an SSD, and THAT w…

Recently overclocked L5639 from 2.13Ghz to 3Ghz and saw a noticeable difference but not sure how pronounced that is for a i7-3xxx at 3.5Ghz to an i7-8xxx at 5Ghz

There's definitely a difference between the L5639 at 3Ghz and a i7-6700HQ (2.6Ghz base) in my laptop

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email – part two

#53
I'll have to go through with some of the same steps to see if a recent problem I had is related to this.

In my case it was actually being triggered by a piece of monitor management software that came with the LG ultrawide monitor that I use. No significant CPU load, no memory issues, plenty of cores in an older HP workstation with a Xeon Processor, 48 gig of RAM and a Samsung SSD. When that display management software was running a text editor couldn't even keep up with displaying text as it was typed.

Edit: rereading some of the original 2 articles, yeah, I'm not going to be running the same kinds of tests - even if I did it'd take too long to develop the knowledge base to be able to interpret my results adequately.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email – part two

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron gets a lot of hate, but I think people generally are looking at the wrong thing when focusing on memory usage, ask yourself why it’s so important to so many organizations. The number one cost at most companies, is humans. Before electron what did you have for cross platform development? Java was there, but that never really took off for embedded UI inside the browser, and the browser became the primary targe…

Yes, ever since computers became "fast enough" developers have traded user's efficiency for their own. It's faster to write, but slower to run. The difference is that it's written once but run thousands or millions of times each day. It's distributed waste of resources, and it adds up.

And users willingly accept this by upgrading their computers every 3 years just to run the same software with the same performance.

I shouldn’t have to buy 8GB more RAM just because Companies X, Y, and Z only want to hire a few JavaScript programmers.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email – part two

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron allows small teams to focus their most costly investment on developing toward one product being developed across many platforms. At the cost of battery life and memory usage for the users....

I use VSCode (electron based) on a flight cross country regularly. I generally have enough power for the flight (4-5 hours), without much problem. The memory usage hasn’t been bad enough for me to notice it stealing resources from other apps that need it. I don’t think most users notice. I’m not talking about you. It’s clear this is a big deal to you, and so I assume you don’t use any electron apps. I think that’s a…

I'm pretty sure VSCode is actually React-Native, not Electron. So there isn't the overhead of a full Chrome instance like there is for Slack or Atom.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email – part two

#56

It's tangential here, but, seriously, let me ask: For those of us here with > 15 years in the business, when's the last time you really felt a BIG uptick in performance or responsiveness from a new computer upgrade? I buy a new laptop every 3-4 years, and I buy a nice one, but generally speaking I feel like we've been kind of flat in terms of usable power for a while. 6 or 8 years ago I switched to an SSD, and THAT w…

I got an SSD in 2012, and was miraculous, like everyone who's done it can say.

Aside from that, 2008 was probably the biggest jump. Going from a mediocre laptop to a custom built ~$2500 desktop with a Core 2 Quad and (especially) 24" monitor was astounding. I'm never going to make a laptop my main machine ever again.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email – part two

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Looking at the wrong thing" is a matter of perspective. As a user, I couldn't care less that you saved money by writing a bloated web app. I care about the resources I have, which includes my own time, energy, money, computer, battery etc. In those terms, there are clear disadvantages to Electron based software.

See my response to a similar sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17826915 My basic point there being that losing a small number of users due to these concerns is probably worth it. I don't want to come across as someone who's hyper-defensive of Electron. I hate the fact that such a bloated piece of software has become the standard means for supporting cross-platform development. At the same time, I…

> My basic point there being that losing a small number of users due to these concerns is probably worth it.

Again, this is the developer's perspective. As a user, I don't care at all how many others use my email client or text editor. What's more important to me is that it doesn't suck, especially on my personal computer which isn't quite as tricked out as the computer I use at work.

My point is as previously stated: there are multiple perspectives on this. For me as a user there is absolutely no benefit to the developer using Electron. I don't care if it took a million man years to put together; I care about my own resources. I'm not arguing with your perspective, just arguing that it's just that, one perspective, and that users aren't "looking at the wrong thing" when they complain about the result being crap.

> At the same time, I really don't see other viable options at this point in time.

Electron is five years old. Surely, developing a cross platform application was viable before that? Seems like an ironic statement considering that the larger part of Electron is Chromium, a cross platform GUI application predating Electron. There are plenty of libraries and frameworks that abstract OS specific stuff with regards to GUI, networking, file system handling etc.

> I'm curious though, is there something you would recommend instead that meets these requirements with a single codebase (~90% shared code): target all major platforms (macOS, Windows, Linux) and target all major browsers (Chrome, Safari, Firefox, Edge, IE), (edit: and how could I forget, all major phone browsers) with nearly identical UI/UX?

For one, your web app could be just that: a web app. There's no reason to have multiple copies of chromium running and littering your disk when you already have a browser.

Second, these UIs that look consistent across all platforms probably make the designers happy, but for the user (or at least me, personally) it is better if the interface is consistent with the design conventions of the platform it's running on.

But no, I don't really have an alternative to suggest if those are your goalposts. Targeting multiple platforms is just one of those things you have to suffer through with some consideration if you don't want your application to be a bloated webapp-bundled-with-a-browser.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email – part two

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use VSCode (electron based) on a flight cross country regularly. I generally have enough power for the flight (4-5 hours), without much problem. The memory usage hasn’t been bad enough for me to notice it stealing resources from other apps that need it. I don’t think most users notice. I’m not talking about you. It’s clear this is a big deal to you, and so I assume you don’t use any electron apps. I think that’s a…

I'm pretty sure VSCode is actually React-Native, not Electron. So there isn't the overhead of a full Chrome instance like there is for Slack or Atom.

I'm a React fanboy, but no. VS Code is definitely written on top of Electron, and as far as I know the codebase is entirely custom rather than using any kind of JS SPA framework.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email – part two

#59
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead we get Electron, and people use it to make text editors that take up 500 MB of space.

Electron gets a lot of hate, but I think people generally are looking at the wrong thing when focusing on memory usage, ask yourself why it’s so important to so many organizations. The number one cost at most companies, is humans. Before electron what did you have for cross platform development? Java was there, but that never really took off for embedded UI inside the browser, and the browser became the primary targe…

I don't have unlimited ram and am not interested in subsidizing the companies cost at the expense of my resources.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email – part two

#60

It's tangential here, but, seriously, let me ask: For those of us here with > 15 years in the business, when's the last time you really felt a BIG uptick in performance or responsiveness from a new computer upgrade? I buy a new laptop every 3-4 years, and I buy a nice one, but generally speaking I feel like we've been kind of flat in terms of usable power for a while. 6 or 8 years ago I switched to an SSD, and THAT w…

>But in terms of how long it takes to boot

I notice a huge improvement in boot times with every (windows) OS upgrade I've gotten.

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