Live data from Hacker News

How I recorded user behaviour on my competitor’s websites

dejanseo.com.au

121–130 of 329 posts

Re: How I recorded user behaviour on my competitor’s websites

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that might mean that it's OK ethically (I'm not sure either way), that doesn't make a difference legally. If you go and pick the lock of a random house in your city and get caught by the police, I very much doubt that the defence "I was just doing it to see if I could" is going to help you.

If you didn't steal anything, what would the charge be?

Breaking and entering or trespassing at the very least.

Re: How I recorded user behaviour on my competitor’s websites

#122
post #100
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> noindex So, the browser extension indicating (with big red fonts) that this site is noindex could be a simplest solution? For not power users who don't know about any extensions that would be not so easy though. If that function will appear in Chrome enabled by default, that would raise questions about Google motives, obviously.

I think noindex is nice to have but not neccessary for this trick. The only solution is to fix the back-button bug/vulnerability in Chrome.

Back button is not the only way to end up at noindex site.

Re: How I recorded user behaviour on my competitor’s websites

#123
post #18

Honestly, it doesn't shock me in the slightest that someone who markets themselves as an SEO expert would not only do something as unethical as this, but also brag about it, as though they think they've done something they should be proud of.

FWIW, Dan (the author) has an outstanding reputation for professionalism and integrity in the marketing world. If he says he did something for ethical reasons, to those who know him, he's earned the benefit to be believed. (If you don't know him, you'd be forgiven for being suspicious) And credit should be given to him for educating everyone on this exploit.

It'd be very easy to make a proof of concept of this exploit which didn't breach copyright or record peoples personal information and then to publicise the problem immediately, instead he chose to operate on real sites, collect real personal data and then forget about it for 5 years. It's this general lax attitude that gives everyone working in the SEO sector -- and by extensions the tech sector as a whole a bad reputation. The whole experiment doesn't feel like it was conducted in good faith or with any consideration for the ethics beyond 'hey this is cool'. Grow up!

Re: How I recorded user behaviour on my competitor’s websites

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that might mean that it's OK ethically (I'm not sure either way), that doesn't make a difference legally. If you go and pick the lock of a random house in your city and get caught by the police, I very much doubt that the defence "I was just doing it to see if I could" is going to help you.

If you didn't steal anything, what would the charge be?

If you get caught while doing it you would likely be charged with attempted burglary. It's up to you to convince jury/judge that you didn't intend to steal.

If you only get caught after leaving the premises it is trespassing, since it's apparent you didn't steal. Picking a lock in order to trespass might make the sentence a bit harsher than normal.

Re: How I recorded user behaviour on my competitor’s websites

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that might mean that it's OK ethically (I'm not sure either way), that doesn't make a difference legally. If you go and pick the lock of a random house in your city and get caught by the police, I very much doubt that the defence "I was just doing it to see if I could" is going to help you.

If you didn't steal anything, what would the charge be?

Breaking and entering. Trespass.

Re: How I recorded user behaviour on my competitor’s websites

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that might mean that it's OK ethically (I'm not sure either way), that doesn't make a difference legally. If you go and pick the lock of a random house in your city and get caught by the police, I very much doubt that the defence "I was just doing it to see if I could" is going to help you.

If you didn't steal anything, what would the charge be?

So anyone can just come walk around inside your house without your permission, and you think it’s legal and no problem as long as they don’t take anything? I could see that being the perspective in another culture but it certainly isn’t how the US works.

Re: How I recorded user behaviour on my competitor’s websites

#127
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copying someone elses site and tricking their users to use your copy is a copyright violation and fraud. Nothing cool about it.

It's also a big trademark violation, right?

I would say copyright violation.

Re: How I recorded user behaviour on my competitor’s websites

#128

This is really a good example why it is so difficult for security experts to do research and experiments where real users are involved. What Mr. Petrovic did is illegal in most developed countries: copyright violation (copying web pages) and monitoring and storing user behavior without their consent (and, even worse, by phishing). It doesn't matter that he did it for a "very brief period of time (for ethical reasons)…

When you do security work, that's an important part of your job. Sure, in many scenarios like traditional pentesting you can probably do fine within the legal boundaries in most jurisdictions, but as soon as you do serious security research when you actually test your ideas in practice, you're likely to cross the line sooner or later. It's a difference between "it should probably work" and "yes, it worked, I tried it…

In this particular example there's absolutely nothing that required touching or duplicating the sites of others, the same PoC would work just as well without using a "competitor's website", it could be tested in practice simply by using multiple domains/sites that you fully own.

Re: How I recorded user behaviour on my competitor’s websites

#129
post #122
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think noindex is nice to have but not neccessary for this trick. The only solution is to fix the back-button bug/vulnerability in Chrome.

Back button is not the only way to end up at noindex site.

? Sure, you can just call the URL directly in browser. Which other way do you mean?

The problem is not to end up at "noindex site" (btw: noindex is not a neccessary part of this scheme). The problem is to end up at "noindex site" thinking that the "noindex site" is a competitor site. And I don't see how such deception is possible without the backbutton-bug.

Re: How I recorded user behaviour on my competitor’s websites

#130
post #109
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think noindex is nice to have but not neccessary for this trick. The only solution is to fix the back-button bug/vulnerability in Chrome.

It doesn’t seem like there is a fix, short of removing the history API.

Maybe restrict the history API to the same-origin-policy? Javascript could/should be allowed to manipulate browser-history only for the same domain. Just an idea.
Post reply on HN