Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 223 posts

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#11

Post by Karishmra1234 »

jimmywanger wrote: post #2

If you're ethnically Asian but don't speak Japanese, Japan will not be welcoming at all. If you don't look ethnically Asian, Japanese people will give you allowances and defer to you. However, if you're Asian and not Japanese, they look down on you. Read about ethnic Koreans in Japan and how they're oppressed[0]. They speak fluent Japanese and their families have lived 3 generations in Japan. [0] https://en.wikipedia…

Let us not generalise and make racially charged accusations against another culture please. If it personal experience you had faced it could be anecdotal.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#12

Post by propman »

mikekchar wrote: post #7
dawhizkid wrote: post #4

They found one engineer who wanted to live in Japan and call it a story? You could do this for literally any topic about anything and call it a trend apparently

Is this an appropriate place in HN to say "Me too"? :-) Moved here 10 years ago. Don't regret it for a second. But seriously, in the past 10 years I've noticed a lot of high tech people either moving here or wanting to move here. When I first came, it was really rare to bump into a foreigner who was a programmer. They were either English teachers or factory workers. Now I run into people relatively frequently (even o…

Can I ask you a few questions, if you don’t mind. Are you fluent in Japanese? Have there been any major instances of discrimination at work? I know you’ve been there 10 years, but is this a place you’d be happy for the rest of your life to start a family and potentially retire?

Please ignore if any of these are too uncomfortable or invasive.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#13

Post by dbjh »

jimmywanger wrote: post #2

If you're ethnically Asian but don't speak Japanese, Japan will not be welcoming at all. If you don't look ethnically Asian, Japanese people will give you allowances and defer to you. However, if you're Asian and not Japanese, they look down on you. Read about ethnic Koreans in Japan and how they're oppressed[0]. They speak fluent Japanese and their families have lived 3 generations in Japan. [0] https://en.wikipedia…

To name Koreans as an example is disingenuous. If you read the Wikipedia article you will also see that the problems come from both sides. The Koreans the Wikipedia article talks about do not want to fully integrate - they insist on their Korean nationality and demand rights of both Korean and Japanese nationals. At this point in time they have managed to obtain a special status that is the opposite of being oppressed and is actually a source of irritation among Japanese I know. As anectodal evidence to counter your claim, in the Japanese company I work for (in Japan), my direct superior is Taiwanese, one colleague Korean and another Malay and they are all treated like any other.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#14

Post by soufron »

ericdykstra wrote: post #8

I love living and working in Japan, but I wouldn't recommend moving here unless you're committed to becoming fluent in Japanese and integrating into the culture. This is probably mostly true for any country one could move, but Japanese is one, if not the hardest language to learn for native English speakers. I do, however, recommend everyone visit! Japan is a beautiful country with a unique culture and has something…

I stayed and worked as a Lawyer in Japan for a few years, and I wouldn't say it makes a difference whether you want to integrate or not. I would even tend to think that not integrating can result in being better accepted. Just be the French or the US guy they like to hang out with, the one who knows to do stuff they don't know, and everything will be fine. Try to become a japanese, and you'll end up being crushed by the system.

Speaking japanese is a great plus of course - but it's quite easy to learn, reading and writing don't help much - except if you want to explore the vast trove of japanese culture.

But the most important thing is to know that there is nearly zero interest in working in Japan if you're not the boss. Your career will be painful and difficult. You will suffer. It's a worst of two worlds situation.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#16

Post by loblollyboy »

mikekchar wrote: post #7
dawhizkid wrote: post #4

They found one engineer who wanted to live in Japan and call it a story? You could do this for literally any topic about anything and call it a trend apparently

Is this an appropriate place in HN to say "Me too"? :-) Moved here 10 years ago. Don't regret it for a second. But seriously, in the past 10 years I've noticed a lot of high tech people either moving here or wanting to move here. When I first came, it was really rare to bump into a foreigner who was a programmer. They were either English teachers or factory workers. Now I run into people relatively frequently (even o…

Are a lot of them Russian. I’m on tandem, and it seems like a lot of Russians are learning Japanese and (of course) English

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#17

Post by sofon »

jimmywanger wrote: post #9
mikekchar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My student who was of Korean decent but was the most popular person in high school and went to a good university would disagree with you. As would my friend who was born in Korea, married a Japanese woman and moved to Japan. There is discrimination in Japan, but it's frustrating to see this trotted out time and time again as if you'll be systemically discriminated against no matter where you are. It's just not true.…

The plural of anecdote is not data. And Korean people have been oppressed in the past, and no attempt to rectify the situation has been made by the government. That's why a lot of Korean people born in Japan gravitate towards less savoury activities. Plus, Japanese took Chinese and Korean women and forced them to become whores or "comfort women" for the Japanese soldiers stationed in the mainland. As recently as 2014…

"The plural of anecdote is not data."

Then present some data other than a wikipedia article which doesn't appear to support your case.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#18

Post by xaranke »

Are there really a lot of these people?

Don't get me wrong, Japan is truly a wonderful place to visit but living there seems like playing life on "hard mode" as compared to other countries: new language and culture, never truly becoming "one of them", and relatively poor working conditions.

Unless you have existing ties to the place, it seems hard to believe that people will move in droves; although I can understand a few people moving.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#19

Post by mnm1 »

The Japanese (and Korean) work culture, or at least the external perception thereof is the biggest factor that turns me and others off. Who wants to work most of their life and put in twelve or more hours a day six days a week or more? It's worse than America which is already quite bad and off-putting. I don't know what it is about hard work that people have fetishised, but it's not all that it's cut out to be and frankly, if one doesn't have to work that hard, working that hard is stupid. Not to mention unhealthy. Doing it for low pay borders on insanity or disease. Workaholism is no different than alcoholism at its core. Both are extremely destructive. Well at least with the former, there will hopefully be money to pay one's medical and early funeral bills.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#20

Post by nguyenthanhloc »

latchkey wrote: post #3

I know this is about Japan, but I did something similar. I went from San Francisco to Saigon about 2 years ago. Significantly lower cost of living, motorbike culture, great food and craft beer, super friendly people, easy travel to other SE Asia countries. I don't regret it one bit.

thank you for sharing the story! I'm a Vietnamese, former marketer/founder, and currently working as a banker.

Can you share with me more about your experiences in Vietnam?

Could I buy you a coffee, sometimes?

Post reply on HN