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Edge Computing at Chick-fil-A

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Re: Edge Computing at Chick-fil-A

#321

Post by TickleSteve »

coupdejarnac wrote: post #231
TickleSteve wrote: post #115

Can anyone explain what the actual problem is they're solving using 'edge computing'? I get the feeling this is a completely unnecessary use of technology.

"Edge" computing seems like a term invented by people who grew up with ubiquitous cloud computing. Go back in time 10 years or so, and all this automation would have been onsite by default. You cannot seriously tell me that creating a predictive model for cooking french fries requires a lot of computing power.

Exactly.

And the results would have been no different.

This is just hype-driven development (HDD).

Re: Edge Computing at Chick-fil-A

#322

Post by TickleSteve »

coffeesn0b wrote: post #232
TickleSteve wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ML implies lots of training data. That gets done centrally as it would need to be done in aggregate. You don't have low-latency training of a model and use that same model in real-time. And in your example (admittedly small scale) 12 items of data an hour is not exactly high-data-rate, not enough to justify racks of machines.

You’re correct, training is centralized but the devices that use it to function are operated at the edge.

Of course, thats how ML works, central training of a model with use of that model at the edges.

So how often do you distribute a new model for controlling fries?

Re: Edge Computing at Chick-fil-A

#323

Post by TickleSteve »

samlewis wrote: post #223
TickleSteve wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point about real-time systems is not the your tolerance of 'blips' its about analysis of your worst-case timing requirements. This is what real-time control systems are all about. Sure, you may be able to tolerate a 1 second 'blip'... how about ten seconds? a minute? do you know for sure how long Linux may put your process on hold for? Linux provides no guarantees at all. It seems to me that what you are really c…

Seems like a very appropriate use of technology to me? If they can get "good enough" results using Linux and running with technologies that the average developer is more likely to know, is it worth the investment in running a RTOS? Especially given running a RTOS will make any higher level app integration more difficult? The benefit of running with Linux outweighs the risk of "lettuce on the floor", imo. Yes, there's…

It would also be 'cheaper' to build a bridge using lego....

Correctness of the solution is important, otherwise we're just playing at being engineers.

Re: Edge Computing at Chick-fil-A

#324

Post by reaperducer »

abraham_lincoln wrote: post #155
reaperducer wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I question is what kind of WAN link a single chicken fast food restaurant can get, or is economical At this point, I don't think it's a problem for CFA. CFA doesn't try to go into every little town in the nation like McDonald's. It's expansion is very deliberate and only seems to go into very high value locations, where internet presumably isn't a problem. Moreover, landlords fall all over themselves to lan…

Meh. Unless you personally own a franchise, or work for corporate, this is pure conjecture. The article did mention if a failed node is detected, a next-day restore 'disk' is delivered to the store, so obviously that is faster/more reliable than random ISP.

Not conjecture at all. Two jobs ago I worked in a real estate adjacent field, and there were repeatedly articles in the trades about this. CFA and Apple are two at the top of real estate developer “want” lists, along with Urban Outfitters, Starbucks and a few others.

It’s why when architecture firms render new commercial buildings the fake logos often look like those brands. It looks much better in financing presentations and when you’re trying to attract other tenants.

Some agents even Photoshop Apple and CFA logos onto buildings in their private (and sometimes public) presentations to make the projects look more attractive.

Just because you’ve never worked in this space doesn’t make it conjecture.

Re: Edge Computing at Chick-fil-A

#325

Post by reaperducer »

abraham_lincoln wrote: post #184
swaggyBoatswain wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a chickfila greatly increases realestate value for the landlord though, more so than other restaurant chains like McDonalds.

That doesn't mean the local cable company will put in $100k of poles and coax to your restaurant. Also, McDonald's corporate owns all their real estate, franchisees, too.

Meh. That’s just conjecture.

When a McDonald’s is located on a pad in a Target parking lot, the McDonald’s franchisee doesn’t own that land. It belongs to the owner of the strip mall.

Ditto for the tens of thousands of McDonald’s restaurants located in office buildings, malls, airports, and inside other stores like Wal-marts.

It’s not the 70’s anymore. The standalone McDonald’s is far from a majority of the outlets these days.

Re: Edge Computing at Chick-fil-A

#326

Post by ehsankia »

shaklee3 wrote: post #151
thomasdelteil wrote: post #49

On a related note, Chick-fil-A using Deep Learning models for object detection with MXNet to track how long fries have been waiting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uuq_cX8b1M

Doesn't look like they actually use that. It seems like more of a research project that they wanted to see if it was feasible.

Or more like a fun summer intern project, really. I'm sure it was a cool learning experience but things like that are rarely ever deployed.

Re: Edge Computing at Chick-fil-A

#328

Post by laurentl »

cloverich wrote: post #281
seattlefreeze wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider the cook "a poor sod"? Because he/she is working a job and making a living? I imagine you didn't mean much by it but understand that just because everyone isn't employed in what many consider desirable professions doesn't mean their work is not important or that they don't take pride in what they do. Not meant to be a rant, just wanted to make the point.

I actually interpreted the comment a bit differently. I read it that the employee who used to have some autonomy on when to make adjustments is now doing it because the computer, which they (perhaps) have no control or insight into, is telling them to. I'm sure there's more nuance and people who would view that instruction differently. But to the comments direction, I'd assumed it was alluding to a dystopia of sorts…

Yes, that’s exactly it.

In hindsight, “sod” wasn’t the right term to use (that’s what you get for posting at midnight) but the point I wanted to make was the removal of meaning, autonomy and human interaction when not only are you doing a repetitive job, but how you’re doing it is dictated by a machine. The movie Brazil came to mind, although I’m sure there are better parallels to make.

Re: Edge Computing at Chick-fil-A

#329

Post by laurentl »

Fellshard wrote: post #262
seattlefreeze wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider the cook "a poor sod"? Because he/she is working a job and making a living? I imagine you didn't mean much by it but understand that just because everyone isn't employed in what many consider desirable professions doesn't mean their work is not important or that they don't take pride in what they do. Not meant to be a rant, just wanted to make the point.

You'd be amazed how much satisfaction you can get out of learning to keep a steady stream of perfectly-crispy fries going. It's quite fun on a busy day - hectic, but strategic, and rewarding when you can stay on top of things _and_ produce minimal waste in the process. In some sense, the automation of demand prediction takes some of the fun out of gaining that intuition yourself. On the other hand, it is nice not to…

Okay, looking at it as the computer helping you stay in the flow is certainly a different perspective.

Re: Edge Computing at Chick-fil-A

#330

Post by dnautics »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #289
dnautics wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they've kind of a pain in the butt for us... For example, it would be nice for them to have remote admin, more than one NIC, not freak out when the HDMI is not plugged in, etc.

I use my NUC without HDMI plugged in, and I assume Chick-fil-A does as well. ;) They do actually make a dual NIC NUC, but it's a little overkill for most uses: https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Machine-NUC8i7HVK-Radeon-Graphi... On the other hand, my NUC has plenty of USB 3 ports, and an Ethernet dongle will run you about $7.

Hmm we did buy NUCs about two years ago so I suppose it's possible things have improved
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