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Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

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Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#361

Post by Buge »

earenndil wrote: post #85
rlanday wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple adds no value there Other than inventing the modern phone, writing the operating system and developer tools, running the store, manufacturing the phones people are consuming Amazon's product on and convincing people to buy them...you can argue about what's "fair," but Apple's certainly adding value.

All of those except 'running the store' are value paid for in the purchase of the phone, not the software on it.

Why? Is it wrong to sell a phone at low cost and charge more for apps? Video game consoles sometimes are sold at a loss in order to make money from games.

It's similar to Fortnite's model: sell the game at a low cost (free actually), and then make money from inessential addons (skins).

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#362

Post by Buge »

FireBeyond wrote: post #184
rlanday wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple adds no value there Other than inventing the modern phone, writing the operating system and developer tools, running the store, manufacturing the phones people are consuming Amazon's product on and convincing people to buy them...you can argue about what's "fair," but Apple's certainly adding value.

> Other than inventing the modern phone Come on now. > writing the operating system Which OS, iOS, that the phone purchaser inherently paid for? Or macOS, that the computer purchaser inherently paid for? > developer tools Which you need to purchase a developer license for to be useful. Apple is adding value, AND double dipping. Most of your examples are things they've already been compensated for.

Just because they've already been compensated to some degree doesn't mean they've been fully compensated. Video game consoles are sometimes sold at a loss in order to make money on games.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#363

Post by mrhappyunhappy »

nielsbot wrote: post #351
michaelchisari wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Los Angeles has serious grade inflation across the board wrt social ratings. Their yelp reviews are completely unreliable, everything is 4 or 5 stars. I'm used to Chicago where even a great restaurant can have 3 stars because everyone is so picky, and the 4 or 5 stars are reserved for the truly extraordinary.

My opinion is that everyone should get rid of 1-5 stars in favor of "thumbs up/thumbs down" ratings... Wonder if there's any research to support this suggestion...

In terms of impact on conversions the star rating has a powerful impact. People are highly receptive to the stars. I doubt that system is going away any time soon.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#364

Post by jjeaff »

Buge wrote: post #361
earenndil wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those except 'running the store' are value paid for in the purchase of the phone, not the software on it.

Why? Is it wrong to sell a phone at low cost and charge more for apps? Video game consoles sometimes are sold at a loss in order to make money from games. It's similar to Fortnite's model: sell the game at a low cost (free actually), and then make money from inessential addons (skins).

If that were the case, no, nothing wrong... But apple is making a huge markup on their $1200 phones. They aren't making up a loss with their app store. They're just piling on the cash.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#365

Post by Buge »

jjeaff wrote: post #364
Buge wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Is it wrong to sell a phone at low cost and charge more for apps? Video game consoles sometimes are sold at a loss in order to make money from games. It's similar to Fortnite's model: sell the game at a low cost (free actually), and then make money from inessential addons (skins).

If that were the case, no, nothing wrong... But apple is making a huge markup on their $1200 phones. They aren't making up a loss with their app store. They're just piling on the cash.

Would it be wrong of apple to make the app store fee 5% and then increase the phone price whatever percent is necessary to make up that loss? Would that be considered piling on the cash?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#366

Post by earenndil »

Buge wrote: post #361
earenndil wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those except 'running the store' are value paid for in the purchase of the phone, not the software on it.

Why? Is it wrong to sell a phone at low cost and charge more for apps? Video game consoles sometimes are sold at a loss in order to make money from games. It's similar to Fortnite's model: sell the game at a low cost (free actually), and then make money from inessential addons (skins).

It's fine for a company to sell hardware/os at a loss and recoup the costs with apps, if they predict that they'll make more money that way. However, it's not reasonable for them to, say, refuse me service on the os because all I bought was a hardware+os, not any apps. Nor is it reasonable for them to make me, an app-maker, bear the brunt of the os, since I have nothing to do with the os, just the app store.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#368

Post by biztos »

giovannibajo1 wrote: post #84
jimbokun wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, if you already have a subscription for Amazon Video through the web, then download the Amazon Video app and login to your existing account, Apple doesn't get anything. Which is why the article emphasized Netflix trying to get customers to sign up through their web site, and not the app.

Correct. Apple gets a cut if a customer subscribes through the in-app one-click subscription, which is extremely convenient for any iPhone user (and thus app publishers) because it’s a single click rather than having to insert credit cards, 3D secure and whatnot. In this case the cut is 30% on the first year and 10% afterwards. If the user subscribes through the website, Apple gets nothing. I find this fair. What is…

I would also note that being able to painlessly cancel a subscription at any time is a big incentive for users to buy subscriptions through the iOS App Store.

Having recently jumped through the series of hoops necessary to cancel an NYTimes subscription, I am strongly biased towards App Store and Amazon-Prime-based subscriptions, even though they are arguably unfair to the providers.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#369

Post by Buge »

earenndil wrote: post #366
Buge wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Is it wrong to sell a phone at low cost and charge more for apps? Video game consoles sometimes are sold at a loss in order to make money from games. It's similar to Fortnite's model: sell the game at a low cost (free actually), and then make money from inessential addons (skins).

It's fine for a company to sell hardware/os at a loss and recoup the costs with apps, if they predict that they'll make more money that way. However, it's not reasonable for them to, say, refuse me service on the os because all I bought was a hardware+os, not any apps. Nor is it reasonable for them to make me, an app-maker, bear the brunt of the os, since I have nothing to do with the os, just the app store.

If I buy a smart fridge, even though it has a computer in it, I don't expect to be able to install arbitrary software on it in a supported manner. Apple doesn't advertise as a computing platform for everything, they advertise as having a whitelist of apps, and that's what they provide. I don't want a phone with a whitelist, so I don't buy iOS phones. But some people do want that type of product, and do buy them.

You do have something to do with the os. Your app is running on the os.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#370

Post by valuearb »

Bekwnn wrote: post #218
bangonkeyboard wrote: post #33

"App Store fees got you down? Meanwhile at Epic, they lowered their take on the Unreal Marketplace from 30% to 12% and retroactively paid back years of fees. "Epic said this is due to the success of Fortnite. If only Apple and Google had successful products to rely on for income." — https://twitter.com/agilethumbs/status/1029804861477412865

Additionally, Unreal Engine 4 charges only 5% gross on revenue exceeding 3,000 USD per quarter. Epic's CEO tweeted about these markets taking 30% where other transaction facilitators only take 2-5%. https://mobile.twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/89831654549... It feels like in tech there are a ton of leech-like companies attempting to leverage their way into middleman positions and then rest on their laurels while…

Calling Apple a transaction facilitator is a ludicrous way to try to downplay what they actually do. They aren’t just a transaction processer, that’s the cheapest and easiest part of their job. They also host petabytes of apps in hundreds of geographically dispersed and localized app stores, and covers all bandwidth for distributing and updating those apps. And unlike google Apple actually reviews every release of every app by hand, keeping huge amounts of malware off customer devices, and maintaining the high level of confidence developers need to get customers to buy apps.

Now Apple doesn’t need 30%, but they’d lose huge amounts of money at 5%. A more reasonable guess at App Store break-even is that it requires at least 10%.

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