... who was underpaid, to a level where properly living is out of the question. Who was abused and threatened into unpaid overtime. Just saying there's other considerations too. I get that these practices mean that it's likely a better burrito, but it's wrong.
You are not doing that person any favor by banning them from the US.
That's how it works, isn't it ? They improve the fate of a single person, to a totally unsatisfactorily low level, and thereby drag down everyone.
So yes you're not helping that individual. In fact you're damaging that individual potentially a lot. But you're helping far more people a little bit.
You are not doing that person any favor by banning them from the US.
That's how it works, isn't it ? They improve the fate of a single person, to a totally unsatisfactorily low level, and thereby drag down everyone. So yes you're not helping that individual. In fact you're damaging that individual potentially a lot. But you're helping far more people a little bit.
What a great humanitarian endeavor, to punish the weakest and most vulnerable for the benefit of the whole.
Honest question: if immigrants are willing to do the same job for less money, why do US citizens deserve special treatment and higher wages? Why should companies be forced to not hire in an economically optimal way?
It sounds like immigrants are willing to do it because they have no other option. The issue here isn't US citizens deserving special treatment; the issue is closing the loophole which only benefits the companies.
I dunno, maybe get Trump to executive order lower salaries for Cisco employees? That would be roughly equivalent to the Chinese situation. Alternatively, the USA as a country could put some effort into education, so as to be self-sufficient in available, skilled workers. But you're simplifying things - do we really know that lack of cheap Indian H1-B or L1 workers is what's killing Cisco? No. We don't even know that…
I don’t agree that Chinese labour is cheaper is because the government forces people work for low salaries. Sure there is a lot of intervention, but that’s a stretch. In any case, using your example, there are Indian, Vietnamese and Turkish workers that are willing to do the work Cisco needs at a cheaper price than Cisco is required to pay in America. If Cisco doesn’t recruit them, a competitor does and that competit…
Allowing your country's companies to under-pay your population probably has worse effects, even in the short run. Corporations are here to make things better for the populace, not to use the populace as resources to be raided before the corporation moves along to better things. That almost always seems to be left out of the analysis. Without any benefits from a corporation,we're all better off without them, except maybe a few big stockholders and C-level employees. If corporations don't help, they're not even Pareto-efficient.
Could you enumerate some of those benefits? I'm not seeing the "better pay" in any example I've seen online. And benefits are questionable, and rather subjective. I don't want my job to provide anything, I want them to pay me a lot of money and let me take care of my problems without becoming involved. Most "job benefits" are just bullhshit and ways to cut taxes. I don't mind talking to HR. You should always hire a l…
> I'm not seeing > I don't want > I don't mind > I'll also make sure [..] within my social circle > what benefits I'd get A business usually consists of a group of employees, some may benefit more than others, clearly you may be in the others category. But maybe some of your colleagues aren't as vocal or brave as you, or maybe they can't afford to risk losing their job etc. That's solidarity, not tweeting about somet…
>* 5-6 weeks of paid vacation annually.
>* Paid sick leave.
>* Months of paid parental leave.
I believe these issues should be legislated rather than negotiated. I believe that is how it's done in the majority of Western Europe as well.
I work here! I also participated in this! We needed to hire a few people at a smaller Cisco site for a project in a less than favourite BU. Recruitment reached out to me after my rec didn’t find any fits in a week and the pushed a couple candidates my way. As these candidates required sponsorship, we knew that we could probably retain them for less and for longer. I don’t have anything against Americans, but if I can…
> I don’t have anything against Americans, but if I can get someone who is better educated, will not jump ship in 18 months, and will do more for less then I’ll jump all over that.
By this logic, why not enslave children and teach them CS.
The argument against cisco is the "players" are clearly trying to CHEAT "the game". H1b's are for finding talent when there isn't any, not for finding workers that won't "jump ship". The freedom to jump ship is why America is great.
When I was at Juniper Networks, Indian managers would routinely hire Indian employees on H1, underpay them to make them look competitive compared to US employees, and then pay them an additional salary through the Indian office, hiding this from the other departments, and the 'white' people.
> and then pay them an additional salary through the Indian office, hiding this from the other departments Where does this money come from? This should be budgeted somewhere, so I don't understand how this is "hidden" from others. Also, if you knew this they probably didn't do a good job of "hiding" it, did they?
Not OP, but I spent 5 years at Cisco. It wouldn't be terribly hard to hide opex in a company that size.. there's a good deal of discretion given to middle management with their budgets and non-existent oversight.
That's how it works, isn't it ? They improve the fate of a single person, to a totally unsatisfactorily low level, and thereby drag down everyone. So yes you're not helping that individual. In fact you're damaging that individual potentially a lot. But you're helping far more people a little bit.
What a great humanitarian endeavor, to punish the weakest and most vulnerable for the benefit of the whole.
The same can be said about the opposite: allow immigrants to take up the lowest jobs thinking it'll provide a decent life. That is a lie, and steals that opportunity of a decent life from others too.
> I'm not seeing > I don't want > I don't mind > I'll also make sure [..] within my social circle > what benefits I'd get A business usually consists of a group of employees, some may benefit more than others, clearly you may be in the others category. But maybe some of your colleagues aren't as vocal or brave as you, or maybe they can't afford to risk losing their job etc. That's solidarity, not tweeting about somet…
>* 5-6 weeks of paid vacation annually. >* Paid sick leave. >* Months of paid parental leave. I believe these issues should be legislated rather than negotiated. I believe that is how it's done in the majority of Western Europe as well.