Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 474 posts

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#181

Post by ppeetteerr »

ksec wrote: post #117
ppeetteerr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are doing a ton that is useful: - Taking care of payment processing - Storing the user's credit card information - Providing a ton of pricing options - Providing analytics and crash monitoring tools - Providing deployment tools - Providing development tools (push notifications, regular updates to their platforms, market segmentation, beta releases, etc) - Providing distribution - Creating a market place for the…

At the scale Apple operate None of what you stated above is worth anywhere near 10%, let alone 30%. And for the last few points, they are covered by the Hardware cost which in Apple case cover the software as well. ( Where Windows and Android are covered by other means ) And I don't think you are actually disagreeing with your parents at all. Because all the services they provided and as you have listed are now consi…

Credit cards take up to 5% and they only cover the transaction.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#182

Post by btian »

vram22 wrote: post #172
muro wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EC told Google that income from PlayStore should be enough for them to make money on Android. Edit: EC == European Commission

Who is EC in this context? The Epic mentioned above, or something else?

European Commission I imagine

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#183

Post by [deleted] »

EGreg wrote: post #136
ksec wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the scale Apple operate None of what you stated above is worth anywhere near 10%, let alone 30%. And for the last few points, they are covered by the Hardware cost which in Apple case cover the software as well. ( Where Windows and Android are covered by other means ) And I don't think you are actually disagreeing with your parents at all. Because all the services they provided and as you have listed are now consi…

How do you determine this, instead of the market? Firms are willing to pay it to Apple and Google, and not competitors.

[deleted]

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#184

Post by FireBeyond »

rlanday wrote: post #52
cgriswald wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam does not sell me a locked down hardware platform preventing me from buying the software directly from the publisher. Nor does Steam force me to buy DLC through Steam, I am free to buy the DLC directly from the publisher. Steam gets a cut of what I buy from Steam and I am not locked into buying from Steam in order to make my PC useful. Apple sells me a locked down hardware platform that requires me to go through…

> Apple adds no value there Other than inventing the modern phone, writing the operating system and developer tools, running the store, manufacturing the phones people are consuming Amazon's product on and convincing people to buy them...you can argue about what's "fair," but Apple's certainly adding value.

> Other than inventing the modern phone

Come on now.

> writing the operating system

Which OS, iOS, that the phone purchaser inherently paid for? Or macOS, that the computer purchaser inherently paid for?

> developer tools

Which you need to purchase a developer license for to be useful.

Apple is adding value, AND double dipping. Most of your examples are things they've already been compensated for.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#185

Post by radley »

ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #10

Doesn't Valve take 30% from games on Steam? But they're complaining Apple taking 30% is too much? I also don't really think the Apple/Google fee is that unreasonable. Considering the resources, tools, marketplaces, tutorials, payment processing, all the other All dev stuff they provide in general. Yes if your app goes big, they make a lot of money. But for every big app there's something like 9 that fail completely (…

> But for every big app there's something like 9 that fail completely

Actually the ratio is more like 1 to 500k. There are millions of apps in both stores, but I'd bet less than 1000 make significant income exclusively from the app stores.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#186

Post by aljones »

throwawaymath wrote: post #129
ksec wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the scale Apple operate None of what you stated above is worth anywhere near 10%, let alone 30%. And for the last few points, they are covered by the Hardware cost which in Apple case cover the software as well. ( Where Windows and Android are covered by other means ) And I don't think you are actually disagreeing with your parents at all. Because all the services they provided and as you have listed are now consi…

How can you argue that it's not worth "anywhere near 10%, let alone 30%" if there are so many firms willing to pay it? The idea of the fees is not to cover the costs of doing business, it's to turn a (ideally significant) profit. It sounds like your expectation is that a company would not charge as much as the market will accept for a unique product. How much it costs to simply handle e.g. payment processing has rela…

Ideal competitive markets allow for little profit. Significant profits are a sign that a market lacks competition. One can certainly not expect a company to voluntarily lower prices based on a value judgement. It requires competition or, in unusual cases, regulation.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#187

Post by bskap »

adrian_mrd wrote: post #35

Three thoughts. There is a certain irony at play here, given both Apple and Google's own fights with tax authorities in many jurisdictions (eg the double Irish and the EU, Australian complaints about tax avoidance, agreements about their use of shell companies in the Cayman Islands or other tax havens, etc.). I have always wondered what the real cost is to both Google and Apple in running their App Stores? The 30% fi…

Calculating costs here is tricky. Do you only include the cost for Google running running the Play Store infrastructure itself, or do you also include the costs of developing and running Google Play Services? What about the costs Google has developing Android itself, which is otherwise given away for free?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#189

Post by cgriswald »

jimbokun wrote: post #58
cgriswald wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam does not sell me a locked down hardware platform preventing me from buying the software directly from the publisher. Nor does Steam force me to buy DLC through Steam, I am free to buy the DLC directly from the publisher. Steam gets a cut of what I buy from Steam and I am not locked into buying from Steam in order to make my PC useful. Apple sells me a locked down hardware platform that requires me to go through…

As I understand it, if you already have a subscription for Amazon Video through the web, then download the Amazon Video app and login to your existing account, Apple doesn't get anything. Which is why the article emphasized Netflix trying to get customers to sign up through their web site, and not the app.

You are correct in that if I subscribe through Apple, that Apple gets a cut, and if I subscribe via the web they do not get a cut. This makes sense, since Apple is providing a subscription service. I don't have any problem with this model. It's convenient and I've used it in the past.

However, Apple also wants a cut if I were to purchase a movie through the Amazon Video app. Amazon has disallowed such purchases for this reason. Instead, I have to go back to the web, make the purchase, and then I can view it with the app.

Some may argue that this is a fair price for having your app hosted on the app store. However, since Apple prevents any other means of me getting apps on my phone, I find it unfair rent-seeking.

Worse, Apple very clearly wants subscriptions to work just like in-app purchases.

Post reply on HN