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The Fallacy of Imposter Syndrome

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Re: The Fallacy of Imposter Syndrome

#21

Post by beagle3 »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #15
kylec wrote: post #5

Claiming you have "imposter syndrome" seems to be a popular way to convey modesty or self deprecation. I suspect that many people that claim to have it actually don't.

Think about it like this.... A surgeon might go to school for up to 12 years to acquire all there advanced knowledge. It seems like after all that time, there jobs should be so complicated that it would be beyond the understanding of a layperson. But when I go to the doctor I expect that person to be able to explain what is wrong with me, and what they are going to do to fix it. So even with 12 years of education, th…

> So even with 12 years of education, there isn't REALLY a significant barrier of understanding between the average adult an the doctor.

I apologize for saying this, but this kind of statement smells of Dunning-Kruger. You only feel that way because the doctor works hard to make things understandable for you, and a significant part of his training is in the direction.

How much do you think the average adult would understand when the doctor says something like "I suspect a B-cell mediated paraneoplastic disease (not a T-cell one, mind you), possibly affecting your NMDR receptors? If that's the case, surely a 5-methyl perdnisolone (or maybe a 6-methyl one) will provide some help by modulating antibody generation. An intravenous human normal immunoglobulin is also likely to help in this modulation."?

Instead, the doctor is likely to say "You have an autoimmune disease. We have a cheap-with-side-effects treatment, and an expensive-with-less-but-possibly-not-covered-your-insurance one". Just like the IT guy would say "one works within the office, one works across the world, and there's a gateway between them".

Re: The Fallacy of Imposter Syndrome

#22

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

beagle3 wrote: post #21
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about it like this.... A surgeon might go to school for up to 12 years to acquire all there advanced knowledge. It seems like after all that time, there jobs should be so complicated that it would be beyond the understanding of a layperson. But when I go to the doctor I expect that person to be able to explain what is wrong with me, and what they are going to do to fix it. So even with 12 years of education, th…

> So even with 12 years of education, there isn't REALLY a significant barrier of understanding between the average adult an the doctor. I apologize for saying this, but this kind of statement smells of Dunning-Kruger. You only feel that way because the doctor works hard to make things understandable for you, and a significant part of his training is in the direction. How much do you think the average adult would und…

That's a fair point. My argument was too much of a strawman.

But I still think that the impostor syndrome is a real problem in our field, and that most people are not faking it.

Re: The Fallacy of Imposter Syndrome

#24

Post by setr »

somethingsimple wrote: post #14

I’m always afraid of letting me consider I have it, because I always seem to be put in positions where I’m incompetent. It’s been a pattern in my career so far, and I don’t know how to break it. I join a new team, learn fast, do good work, everyone loves me. Then management assumes that because I’m good at x, I’m also good at y. So they put me to work on y and I fail miserably. Someone else has to come in and help me…

related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

>people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "level of incompetence".

>employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another

Note that the original text was satire, but the idea itself is quite satisfying, and if true would explain all the bad bosses in the world.

Re: The Fallacy of Imposter Syndrome

#25

Post by emmanuel_1234 »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #10

I definitely have it, or else I wouldn't be a USA freelancer w/ 5+ years php experience (laravel + vue = current stack), but only charge $40 an hour as a freelancer... See, I KNOW I have it, I KNOW I'm worth more, but when I get into negotiations on rates, I freeze up and low ball to get the client rather than just spit out $100/hour take it or leave it... I'm in therapy for anxiety/depression though and focus/concen…

Holy shit, I'm actually considering negotiating to lower my current salary because I don't think I'm worthy...

Re: The Fallacy of Imposter Syndrome

#26

Post by somethingsimple »

setr wrote: post #24
somethingsimple wrote: post #14

I’m always afraid of letting me consider I have it, because I always seem to be put in positions where I’m incompetent. It’s been a pattern in my career so far, and I don’t know how to break it. I join a new team, learn fast, do good work, everyone loves me. Then management assumes that because I’m good at x, I’m also good at y. So they put me to work on y and I fail miserably. Someone else has to come in and help me…

related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle >people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "level of incompetence". >employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another Note that the original text was satire, but the idea itself is quite satisfying, and if true would explain…

Yeah, it's something akin to the Peter Principle. Except I'm not being promoted. I'm still in the same position, except I always get assigned to do stuff I have no clue about, while there are a thousand other areas in the project where I could be doing my best work. I don't understand it.

Re: The Fallacy of Imposter Syndrome

#27

Post by sshine »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #16
throwawaymath wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without trying to trivialize your reasons for going to therapy: I don't think you have imposter syndrome. If you do, something seems incongruent here. It sounds to me as though you struggle with negotiation due to a lack of confidence. That's not ideal but it can be remedied, and it's a different (better, in my opinion) issue to have. On the other hand I don't really think you can have imposter syndrome while being s…

The imposter part is I don't feel I'm as 'good' as that other guy who's making 100..maybe I don't know everything htey know..I'm not the best at super complicated algorithms or math, but I can google this shit out of stack overflow and solve 95% of all issues I've ever had. That's what kind of knocks my confidence down a little bit.

I don't want to steal your label, but it sounds like a lack of confidence, maybe lack of perception of self worth.

Re: The Fallacy of Imposter Syndrome

#28

Post by DoreenMichele »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #10

I definitely have it, or else I wouldn't be a USA freelancer w/ 5+ years php experience (laravel + vue = current stack), but only charge $40 an hour as a freelancer... See, I KNOW I have it, I KNOW I'm worth more, but when I get into negotiations on rates, I freeze up and low ball to get the client rather than just spit out $100/hour take it or leave it... I'm in therapy for anxiety/depression though and focus/concen…

Let me suggest you look into "twice exceptional" resources. I'm 2xE. When I'm good, I'm very good. When I'm bad, I'm truly terrible.

The very nature of being talented but also handicapped makes it nigh impossible to predict if today you are delivering awesome sauce or laying another goose egg. Given that reality, it isn't crazy to err on the side of charging low rates so people don't smear your reputation if it falls short.

Working on solving underlying problems and putting good systems in place for double checking your work can help. I also prefer to charge by the piece rather than by the hour. Then it's my problem if I stare at the screen and drool on myself all afternoon, not my client's, and as I get better, my de facto hourly rate improves.

I absolutely do not suffer from Impostor Syndrome, but I do struggle to appropriately price my work for a variety of reasons, including the fact that I'm 2xE. It's slowly getting better.

Best.

(Will add: I recently learned that the new abbreviation is 2e. You might have more luck searching that term than 2xE.)

Re: The Fallacy of Imposter Syndrome

#29

Post by sshine »

At one job I had, everyone was a PhD or a postdoc, and I hadn't completed my BSc. They offered me 20% more than I would have asked for, and I worked inefficiently because of problems concentrating.

I labeled myself as an impostor in this situation and eventually quit.

The article doesn't argue that impostor syndrome doesn't exist, but that the reader shouldn't use the term. That if you frame your situation differently, you can have a more positive outlook.

My real problem was that I had problems concentrating - a problem that I still have to a lesser extent - but the scenario back then made it harder for me to acknowledge this. "It's because the others are better than you." Well, duh, maybe they were. But you're good, too, if you can concentrate.

Re: The Fallacy of Imposter Syndrome

#30

Post by jobigoud »

joeyaiello wrote: post #8
kylec wrote: post #5

Claiming you have "imposter syndrome" seems to be a popular way to convey modesty or self deprecation. I suspect that many people that claim to have it actually don't.

As someone who definitely has imposter syndrome, the enlightening part of this post for me was that YOU are also the horse jockey. In this light, it's important for me to recognize that you could easily see me as someone falsely claiming imposter syndrome, even if I know I'm not. Not sure it helps with the imposter syndrome, though...

You might have Imposter Imposter Syndrome Syndrome.

The fear of being called out for faking Imposter Syndrome.

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