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Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

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Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#101
post #92
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cut is 15% so even if you passed it on to your consumers, which nobody does, you wouldn't charge 50% more.

Apple's subscription cut is 15% after the subscription has been active for a year, it's 30% for the first year.

Not for Netflix, who is doing most of the complaining here.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#102
For everybody who doesn't want to participate in the whole App-Store-Tax economy, I suggest taking a look at Progressive Web Apps which do not need any App Store and work cross-platform. Just be aware that they do not support all APIs, so for some use-cases, they can't compete with the native apps.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#103

The 30% cut would have been reasonable after all this time if the platforms were doing anything useful with the money. Instead, we got: - Store APIs that to this day are stupidly complex to get right in all cases, making you wonder why it’s so hard - No support for very common, decades-old pricing schemes like “free demo, then buy” (except through convoluted means) - Stagnant app store designs (esp. Mac, for YEARS) -…

Free demo then buy is called iap. It exists.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#104
I think it's a legitimate complaint considering how terrible the app store search is. On android, I can never find the app I"m looking for with their search. I always end up using Google search to find the apps I want. And even then, it takes many many searches to find what i want.

Consider the following need: "I want a free running app that can track my weekly mileage". Quite a simple request right? Search through all the top apps on Android app store, it took me a long time to find a good one that met my needs and had this feature.

And, I'm seeing that the top apps aren't always the best ones.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#105
post #97

The 30% cut would have been reasonable after all this time if the platforms were doing anything useful with the money. Instead, we got: - Store APIs that to this day are stupidly complex to get right in all cases, making you wonder why it’s so hard - No support for very common, decades-old pricing schemes like “free demo, then buy” (except through convoluted means) - Stagnant app store designs (esp. Mac, for YEARS) -…

>Absolutely terrible search We have much more powerful CPU, In-Memory DB and SSD, Searching within a comparatively small dataset that is the App Store is a solved problem more than a decade ago and much more so now. Instead we got a appalling App Store search. It could simply mean one thing, Apple just doesn't care.

Why would they care, you don't have a choice. BTW,why is Google having issues with its store in Europe and not Apple? At least you can install an alternative store on Android which is strictly better for the consumer.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it's clearly a monopoly (or duopoly). How did they settle on 30%? Why did Apple and Google come to the same 30% number - is that a coincidence? They could easily provide the same service for less than 1/3 of the cost, but the percent never budges because it doesn't have to. There's zero competitive pressure. In fact they could move it up to 60% if they want to with nothing stopping them. Some people ha…

"Why did Apple and Google come to the same 30% number - is that a coincidence?" Google copied Apple?

Right. If this were a competitive market, they'd both be constantly refining their cut to find the optimal value. In practice the 30% was plucked out of the air and has never been changed.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#107

The 30% cut would have been reasonable after all this time if the platforms were doing anything useful with the money. Instead, we got: - Store APIs that to this day are stupidly complex to get right in all cases, making you wonder why it’s so hard - No support for very common, decades-old pricing schemes like “free demo, then buy” (except through convoluted means) - Stagnant app store designs (esp. Mac, for YEARS) -…

They are doing a ton that is useful: - Taking care of payment processing - Storing the user's credit card information - Providing a ton of pricing options - Providing analytics and crash monitoring tools - Providing deployment tools - Providing development tools (push notifications, regular updates to their platforms, market segmentation, beta releases, etc) - Providing distribution - Creating a market place for the…

It isn't as easy as you are making it out here, it's a chicken egg problem, really. OS vendors need to provide tools to developers or else there will be no apps. No apps means less users which means no customers to sell hardware/ads to.

Microsoft failed to establish a healthy developer community and had to close the whole smartphone department because nobody wanted their phones. Windows Phone was a very good operating system and had very high quality hardware but because the apps were missing, people bought Android and iOS.

But without the app stores and tools, developers won't get their apps to their customers.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#108

The 30% cut would have been reasonable after all this time if the platforms were doing anything useful with the money. Instead, we got: - Store APIs that to this day are stupidly complex to get right in all cases, making you wonder why it’s so hard - No support for very common, decades-old pricing schemes like “free demo, then buy” (except through convoluted means) - Stagnant app store designs (esp. Mac, for YEARS) -…

On top of the terrible search, they also show ads. Which, if search was good, would be explicitly worse than actual search results.

This. This is why how Steam operates is 10x better than the mobile app stores. A 30% fee for getting your app in front of the users who might buy it is one thing. Steam isn't perfect, but they've set up their economic model where they are rewarded for doing this, which is good for both developers and users. This involves personal recommendations, maybe third party curation features, search etc.

If you have an ad-based model, there's less of a reason improve those other systems, since the store might be able to extract 75% of the value created if you get developers bidding against each other to buy visibility. But it sucks for everyone except the app store owner.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#109

Is this any different than the same non-story we've been reading since 2011?[1] Don't want to give Apple their cut? Do what Amazon does, and don't sell through the App Store. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-kindle-2011-2

And so how do you sell iOS apps or in-app content then?

Release a free app that requires a user to log in. In order to access the content in the app, the user has to log into a web browser with that account and pay directly via the developer's website. Amazon Kindle and Netflix kind of do this. With Kindle, you have to buy the books with a separate app instead of a website, and Netflix has the option to buy inside the app as well as outside.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#110

The 30% cut would have been reasonable after all this time if the platforms were doing anything useful with the money. Instead, we got: - Store APIs that to this day are stupidly complex to get right in all cases, making you wonder why it’s so hard - No support for very common, decades-old pricing schemes like “free demo, then buy” (except through convoluted means) - Stagnant app store designs (esp. Mac, for YEARS) -…

In my opinion the 30% fee is reasonable because it provides access to Apple's user base. It's not as though they're specifically obligated to earmark that money to improve the app store itself. The things you're complaining about are valid criticisms, but I don't think the have anything to do with whether or not the fee is appropriate.

In return for 30%, Apple develops and maintains a centralized software distribution channel. It takes care of end to end payment processing, deployment and updates. If you don't believe 30% is reasonable in return for access to that market, you can choose not to develop for that market.

But words like "reasonable" imply some obligation on the part of the company. Why would a company not charge a premium for access to a lucrative distribution channel? Clearly many firms are happy to trade 30% of sales in return for access to that market. From my perspective the issues you've outlined are orthogonal to whether or not Apple's fees are "reasonable."

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