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Venezuelans Skeptical of Maduro's Latest Measures to Salvage Economy

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21–30 of 59 posts

Re: Venezuelans Skeptical of Maduro's Latest Measures to Salvage Economy

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What underlying ideology? Socialism? There's nothing that says socialism or some form of it can't work.

Not to presume of the future, but USSR, China, Cuba, Cambodia, North Korea, to a lesser extent Romania and now Venezuella pretty much all turned the same way. How many time should an experiment be repeated to disprove an ideology ?

There's not one system/ideaology that's lasted throughout history. Capitalism is deemed to fail at some point, and it like it may well fairly soon.

Also, you can take Cuba out of your list as it's doing very well in fact.

Re: Venezuelans Skeptical of Maduro's Latest Measures to Salvage Economy

#22
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why "populist" ? I don't think the starving Venezuelans condone the system very much. Venezuelan policies are at foremost socialist .

The support for Chavez was immense, in particular amongst the poor Venezuelans.

Until it wasn't, thus making it necessary to resort to fake elections.

Re: Venezuelans Skeptical of Maduro's Latest Measures to Salvage Economy

#23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What underlying ideology? Socialism? There's nothing that says socialism or some form of it can't work.

There's little-s socialism and big-s socialism. Social democracies like Sweden, etc., have social welfare systems bankrolled by an underlying market economy. A company in Sweden may pay high taxes, but it doesn't have to worry about being nationalized, price controls, or central planning: https://www.economist.com/special-report/2012/10/13/the-new-... . Capital will put up with high taxes. It won't put up with those…

Social Democracy != Socialism. Socialism moves to take full ownership of the means of production, and Social Democracy only places regulations on business that are often demolished years down the line and workers get screwed at the benefit of the few.

Every system has failed throughout history, so there's no reason a Capitalistic system cannot fail as well, and we see the global collapse of Capitalism happening right now in front of us.

Re: Venezuelans Skeptical of Maduro's Latest Measures to Salvage Economy

#24
post #15
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of which you blame, if you intend to change ideologies (not saying Venezuela will), then you take out the head of the current system.

Clarifying the mechanism here - a sign that the ideology has changed is that the head of state changes. The Head of State generally has a substantial power base in the system in order to hold their seat. If they are ousted, it is a sign their power base has waned and the system changed.

But changing the head is not sufficient to change the system.

Re: Venezuelans Skeptical of Maduro's Latest Measures to Salvage Economy

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to presume of the future, but USSR, China, Cuba, Cambodia, North Korea, to a lesser extent Romania and now Venezuella pretty much all turned the same way. How many time should an experiment be repeated to disprove an ideology ?

There's not one system/ideaology that's lasted throughout history. Capitalism is deemed to fail at some point, and it like it may well fairly soon. Also, you can take Cuba out of your list as it's doing very well in fact.

Capitalism isn't a theory. It's an emergent result of letting people own themselves, property, and the fruits of their own labor while also letting them trade their property and labor. Thus capitalism is freedom. To replace capitalism with any theory requires identifying which freedoms you mean to constrain or abandon altogether.

Re: Venezuelans Skeptical of Maduro's Latest Measures to Salvage Economy

#26
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you blame the head of the system rather than the underlying ideology ?

What underlying ideology? Socialism? There's nothing that says socialism or some form of it can't work.

How many times do countries have to collapse before we can be sure?

Re: Venezuelans Skeptical of Maduro's Latest Measures to Salvage Economy

#27
How come the society has yet to collapse if the salaries can't cover a few days of spending. I mean this reaches a critical point, as far as I see it: At some wage, the employee will bail out. Because it cost more to do the job (transportation/food) than the job pays.

Apparently, this is not the case. As the workers are still going for work. The equation is certainly bad (I have no doubt about that) but it has not reached a critical point where everything collapses (Examples could be Libya and Syria).

To see for yourself, go to Caracas on Google maps and turn traffic on. Try that on Damascus.

Re: Venezuelans Skeptical of Maduro's Latest Measures to Salvage Economy

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What underlying ideology? Socialism? There's nothing that says socialism or some form of it can't work.

How many times do countries have to collapse before we can be sure?

This would be a better argument if a major world power hadn't actively undermined all attempts at socialism.

Re: Venezuelans Skeptical of Maduro's Latest Measures to Salvage Economy

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What underlying ideology? Socialism? There's nothing that says socialism or some form of it can't work.

How many times do countries have to collapse before we can be sure?

Clock's been ticking for a long while now on Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland. When will you give up waiting for these socialist states to collapse?

Re: Venezuelans Skeptical of Maduro's Latest Measures to Salvage Economy

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not one system/ideaology that's lasted throughout history. Capitalism is deemed to fail at some point, and it like it may well fairly soon. Also, you can take Cuba out of your list as it's doing very well in fact.

Capitalism isn't a theory. It's an emergent result of letting people own themselves, property, and the fruits of their own labor while also letting them trade their property and labor. Thus capitalism is freedom. To replace capitalism with any theory requires identifying which freedoms you mean to constrain or abandon altogether.

>It's an emergent result of letting people own themselves, property, and the fruits of their own labor while also letting them trade their property and labor.

I'm not sure what system you're talking about, but what you're describing is certainly not Capitalism or freedom. Capitalism does not give people the full fruits of their labor, it allows the owner to steal the surplus value off of the workers, creating inequality. Surplus value being the capital left once the equipment, wages, and bills have been paid, and without surplus value the business would not continue to exist. That's not exactly freedom. There's nothing in any radical left wing ideology that says you can't trade your personal property or labor, private property doesn't exist. I'm also not sure a system that requires homelessness and poverty is "freedom", or one that requires people who can't afford health insurance to purchase it or die. I'm not sure a system that puts 1 in 100 in prison based on racial profiling and petty crimes, and does nothing to help them, creating a large recidivism rate for the sole benefit of prison slave labor is called 'freedom'.

It is imperative that far left wing influences keep capitalism in check, or it will run away into pure corruption like it is now.

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