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National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

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Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#301

Post by wool_gather »

oarsinsync wrote: post #217
saagarjha wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prisoners should not be getting paid to cook, clean, do laundry, etc. to help operate the prison, for example. Why not?

Because it's part of the day to day upkeep of life in general. You don't get paid for cooking, cleaning, or doing laundry (unless you're a middle class child earning pocket money from your parents). It's just stuff that has to be done.

Part of daily upkeep if it's just for yourself (possibly plus partner/roommate/whatever). I think we're talking about cooking/washing/whatever for a couple hundred people. As a job.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#302

Post by fipple »

thatjsguy wrote: post #285
fipple wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d rather get the low level druggies out of jail and then treat prisoners like shit. Murderers, rapists, and thugs deserve to be brutalized.

I truly hope people treat you better than you would like to treat other people.

They do, because I don’t murder or rape. Funny how that works.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#303

Post by wool_gather »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #237
ZainRiz wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they're not really "bad actors" Most people in prison today are there because of "drug offenses" which usually means they got caught doing drugs themselves (not dealing drugs or being involved in drug induced crimes).

This is a REALLY common misconception. Including "drug offenses" the U.S. incarceration rate is 693 per 100,000. Excluding "drug offenses" the U.S. incarceration rate is still 625 per 100,000. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/releasing-drug-offender... I agree with you that we should get the drug offenders out. But the characterizations that "most people are in prison for drug offenses" should be updated.

Note, you have a minor misquote of the statistic from the article; it's 725 per 100000:

> From BJS [Bureau of Justice Statistics], [...] an incarceration rate of about 725 people per 100,000 population.

> Suppose every federal drug offender were released today. That would cut the incarceration rate to about 693 inmates per 100,000 population. Suppose further that every drug offender in a state prison were also released. That would get the rate down to 625

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#304

Post by jaccarmac »

jaccarmac wrote: post #260
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a REALLY common misconception. Including "drug offenses" the U.S. incarceration rate is 693 per 100,000. Excluding "drug offenses" the U.S. incarceration rate is still 625 per 100,000. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/releasing-drug-offender... I agree with you that we should get the drug offenders out. But the characterizations that "most people are in prison for drug offenses" should be updated.

Is incarceration rate not somewhat deceptive though? A more interesting statistic would be how many of each 100,000 had ever spent time in prison. From here on is only speculation and I'll do a deeper dive when I'm not on a phone. I'd like to see the rest of the statistics broken down by offense. Additionally I suspect that drug offenses would lead to repeated incarceration and perhaps eventually worse offenses. Most…

The linked article is interesting but also slightly misrepresented. The 693 number is incarcerations without federal drug offenses. The change would be from 725/100k to 625/100k across state and federal, which is a slightly more significant change.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#305

Post by orangecat »

mpax wrote: post #207
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

Wait, you mean privatized prisons are a moral hazard? /s

They are, and so are public sector unions: https://theintercept.com/2016/05/18/ca-marijuana-measure/

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#306

Post by hnaccy »

oathbreaker wrote: post #185
pmarreck wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t disagree but just wanted to say something: The whole point of money was to make it possible for 2+ good actors to do legal (and different) work/goods/services for each other while profiting. Most people who end up in prison were “bad actors” by definition. The system was not benefiting from them. And thus I can’t help thinking that they don’t really deserve any of the system’s monetary medium of exchange.

> Most people who end up in prison were “bad actors” by definition. Disagree. Majority of the offenders are there for non-violent drug offenses. It is also possible some of them are serving sentences for crimes that are no more crimes. California has liberalized marijuana but the prisoners are still in jail for the crimes that no more crimes.

>Majority of the offenders are there for non-violent drug offenses.

I don't believe this is true.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#307

Post by GW150914 »

hnaccy wrote: post #306
oathbreaker wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people who end up in prison were “bad actors” by definition. Disagree. Majority of the offenders are there for non-violent drug offenses. It is also possible some of them are serving sentences for crimes that are no more crimes. California has liberalized marijuana but the prisoners are still in jail for the crimes that no more crimes.

>Majority of the offenders are there for non-violent drug offenses. I don't believe this is true.

If only we had access to some kind of worldwide network which would allows us t-

-found it.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen...

46% drug offenses, 6.8% immigration and we’re already past the 50% mark. That as they say, is a majority.

Edit: Looking at all populations state, federal, local yields: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2018.html

Note: But the offense data oversimplifies how people interact with the criminal justice system. A person in prison for multiple offenses is reported only for the most serious offense so, for example, there are people in prison for “violent” offenses who might have also been convicted of a drug offense. Further, almost all convictions are the result of plea bargains, where people plead guilty to a lesser offense, perhaps of a different category or one that they may not have actually committed.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#308

Post by kiliantics »

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #58
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not believe anyone should be compelled to work against their will. If we want to lock them up, we pay for it.

So what about cases where the penalty is a fine instead of (or in addition to) prison time? If I get a ticket, I have to pay. For the majority of people, that money comes through doing work of some form, which I'm now being required to do or else face possible prison time.

Yes, fines are far more punitive to poor people than they are for the rich. They're effectively just a small expense which allows them to commit crimes.

The fact that society forces us to work harder and harder in order just to live, when it could easily sustain a dignified standard of living for all at minimal cost, is the fundamental problem that people on the left are against.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#309

Post by hnaccy »

GW150914 wrote: post #307
hnaccy wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Majority of the offenders are there for non-violent drug offenses. I don't believe this is true.

If only we had access to some kind of worldwide network which would allows us t- -found it. https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offen... 46% drug offenses, 6.8% immigration and we’re already past the 50% mark. That as they say, is a majority. Edit: Looking at all populations state, federal, local yields: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2018.html Note: But the offense data oversimplifies how…

This doesn't count state systems, including those and it's ~20% drug offenses.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#310

Post by Ar-Curunir »

nickpinkston wrote: post #296
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

However, as someone whose Dad is in prison, a lot of these guys really do want to get out there and do something useful and want this experience. Many times the people complaining are privileged elites who are inferring what these populations want, but I would caution them to not make assumptions and do their research. It is not unambiguously bad to do this. We can talk about the long-term reforms of prison, but ther…

That's true, but if you're going to use labour, then pay for labour. Anything else is slavery. Especially when this "experience" is not useful post-prison.
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