Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

slate.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 391 posts

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#291

Post by ConfSibi »

mnm1 wrote: post #254
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

> The same argument could justify slavery. Not to be pedantic, but this is slavery, allowed by our own constitution. Of course this argument is used to justify it although under the law, no justification is needed. What we need to do is to get rid of slavery altogether in America in 2018 and beyond. It's ridiculous that we call out other countries for human rights abuses while we have slavery all throughout our priso…

How is it slavery if it's a volunteer program?

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#292

Post by microcolonel »

solveit wrote: post #264
microcolonel wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Child rapists shouldn’t ever be let out of jail Possibly unfortunately (though it's not that simple, as prosecutors, being human, still err), the legislature disagrees with you. With personal experience in a proceeding of a charge like this, I assure you child rapists are usually let out of jail before murderers.

>child rapists are usually let out of jail before murderers. And for damn good reason. If murder carries a shorter sentence than raping a child, well guess how a rapist might make sure their victim never testifies.

Murderers aren't in prison forever, so sentences shorter than murder sentences don't last forever either, is my point.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#293

Post by ckocagil »

microcolonel wrote: post #247
ckocagil wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll leave a video that might change the way you think about the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxdgPnYyj64

Bizarre records errors causing absurd outcomes should not be grounds to change prison policy except as it regards improvements to records keeping.

Then it's too bad that this bizarre record error can be seen by taking a plane to Oslo.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#294

Post by mcbits »

a-fried-egg wrote: post #265
WtfRuSerious wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to use a alt account for this ( for obvious reasons )... I disagree with this sentiment, I was ( some 20 years ago ) incarcerated for drug dealing. I broke the law ( much more than I was caught and prosecuted for btw... ) and I deserved what I got, probably more. For the record, being in prison sucks... it's SUPPOSED to suck, it's supposed to make you regret what you did to get put in there and actively loo…

I agree. Prison is supposed to suck.

"Make prison suck" is just one possible means to an end (the ends being to deter crime and recidivism, and keep dangerous people off the streets), not an end in itself. For some offenders, the sucky experience is enough to set them straight. For others, their whole lives already sucked at least as bad as prison, so prison is just more of the same.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#295

Post by nemo44x »

skybrian wrote: post #208
nemo44x wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is sitting inside all day. Having something to do at least lets you get out and make your day more interesting.

Oh come on. Fighting forest fires is dangerous work.

Oh yeah, I wasn't thinking in that context. Just in context of cooking or doing cleanup or something like that.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#296

Post by nickpinkston »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

However, as someone whose Dad is in prison, a lot of these guys really do want to get out there and do something useful and want this experience.

Many times the people complaining are privileged elites who are inferring what these populations want, but I would caution them to not make assumptions and do their research. It is not unambiguously bad to do this.

We can talk about the long-term reforms of prison, but there are short-term concerns too that might be helpful to them.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#297

Post by pmoriarty »

ada1981 wrote: post #112
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

It’s worth noting that this is a voulenteer program and that for every day you work you get 1 day off your sentence. So you can effectively halve your time in prison. This actually seems like a pretty good deal, what would you pay to get a day off your sentence? That said, I think the Prision system is fucked, has horrible incentives, private companies abuse bought prison labor, etc. etc. But I actually felt like thi…

"It’s worth noting that this is a voulenteer program and that for every day you work you get 1 day off your sentence"

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is for every day you don't work you have to spend a day in jail.

That sound more like coercion than volunteering to me.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#298

Post by danShumway »

ada1981 wrote: post #112
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

It’s worth noting that this is a voulenteer program and that for every day you work you get 1 day off your sentence. So you can effectively halve your time in prison. This actually seems like a pretty good deal, what would you pay to get a day off your sentence? That said, I think the Prision system is fucked, has horrible incentives, private companies abuse bought prison labor, etc. etc. But I actually felt like thi…

My gut reaction to this is pretty negative.

It feels instinctively wrong to tie prison time to pay - it should be tied to rehabilitation. And asking someone to risk their lives so they can gamble on reduced prison time just seems... I dunno, isn't that the thing that's usually done by villains in the story books? I mean, maybe I'm naive about it, but I have a fairly strong cultural background telling me that using people's desperation to convince them to do terrible jobs is kind of on the evil side?

Is there additional nuance I'm missing? My first thought is: suppose they were payed a real wage, but independently the prison system had a vending machine where you could exchange wages for reduced prison time. I wouldn't be OK with a system like that.

My objection also wouldn't be about the details. It wouldn't be, "Oh, maybe it'll get abused or someone might threaten a prisoner for money." If I was forced to describe why a system like that felt so wrong, I would probably say something like, "Rehabilitation isn't transactional, and a debt to society isn't something that can be repaid with cash."

So this feels like an abstraction to me that doesn't ultimately change anything about the underlying mechanics being kind of messed up.

If that's not the case, if fighting fires is purely a rehabilitation strategy and the reduced sentence isn't a substitute for money -- then shouldn't we be paying them as well as reducing their prison sentence? If we're not treating freedom as equivalent to wages, then why are they being denied wages?

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#299

Post by freedomben »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #277
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

My biggest beef...is we're worried about losing jobs to Mexicans, but allow slavery here in America...I bet a LOT of slaves..err prisoners have stolen jobs from so-called 'free-loading' mexicans who stole them from Americans....or stole them directly from Americans... Why isn't the 'right' as upset about this as they are illegal immigrants?

I am not a conservative, but I have a lot of conservative friends so I feel comfortable saying this.

The "right" will usually admit that there are incentive issues in the system, but there is no philosophical issue with incarceration. They would also say that prisoners should work to pay their own way, because it isn't fair to tax payers to shoulder the burden when tax payers didn't do the crime (this is why they love Sheriff Joe Arpaio). In general they are very supportive of "law and order" and police/military/etc in general. Of course there will be conservatives that don't feel this way, but many do.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#300

Post by freedomben »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #240
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

Amazes me that occupational licensing laws will prevent these inmates after being released from working as firefighter (because CA won't let former criminals work for the government), while somehow CA is fine having them work as slaves for the government while incarcerated.

After working for and dealing with government at various levels, nothing amazes me anymore. They are layered with contradictions, perverse incentives, and sometimes corruption.
Post reply on HN