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National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

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Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#281

Post by gremlinsinc »

microcolonel wrote: post #249
fipple wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Child rapists shouldn’t ever be let out of jail, so it’s irrelevant what happens to them there.

> Child rapists shouldn’t ever be let out of jail Possibly unfortunately (though it's not that simple, as prosecutors, being human, still err), the legislature disagrees with you. With personal experience in a proceeding of a charge like this, I assure you child rapists are usually let out of jail before murderers.

Make them a eunich (surgically remove balls/testicles/penis/leave a catheter to pee out of), and a life-time ankle bracelet, and a brand on their forehead saying they're a child molester.

This way they still suffer for life, and people know to steer clear, but they don't cost $$ to keep in prison. Win/Win.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#282

Post by c0nducktr »

emodendroket wrote: post #100
lovich wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should prisoners not get minimum wage when everyone else does? How is forcing people to work for less than is levally allowed, in dangerous conditions as well, any different from slavery?

The Constitution explicitly permits slavery as a punishment for crime, to be fair.

Something being the law doesn't make it justifiable.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#284

Post by hackermailman »

makecheck wrote: post #41

I never understood the idea of paying prisoners absurdly little “because prison”. Why, because they’re not paying rent? And there’s no way they will find a job on Day 1 after release, meaning they essentially have not enough money while in prison, no way to save money, and poverty at release. Given that, they’ll probably be forced to steal to survive after release and...end up back in prison. It’s inhumane garbage, a…

A few prisons do pay min wage, like some Arizona prisons that allow outside contractors but generally inmates can't access the funds until they are released (to prevent extortion from other inmates) which means walking out with a lot of savings after a 5 yr bid. They're doing cold calls selling SAP Hana dbms and Oracle stuff https://youtu.be/y4kkYnobf_U and former inmates move up to management. https://www.televerde.com/who-we-are/

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#285

Post by thatjsguy »

fipple wrote: post #273
thatjsguy wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We the People? This is why voting is important, but I’m afraid that even if everyone participated, most people still condone treating prisoners like crap. “Othering” really helps justify it in people’s minds: “oh, it’s fine to treat them poorly because they’re monsters, and everyone knows only Bad People go to prison”. Never mind that a lot of prisons are stuffed full of nonviolent drug offenders whose only crime was…

I’d rather get the low level druggies out of jail and then treat prisoners like shit. Murderers, rapists, and thugs deserve to be brutalized.

I truly hope people treat you better than you would like to treat other people.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#286

Post by ObsoleteNerd »

fraudsyndrome wrote: post #263
andrewla wrote: post #131

For reference, here is the linked list of demands by the national organizers [1]: > 1. Immediate improvements to the conditions of prisons and prison policies that recognize the humanity of imprisoned men and women. > 2. An immediate end to prison slavery. All persons imprisoned in any place of detention under United States jurisdiction must be paid the prevailing wage in their state or territory for their labor. > 3…

As someone from Australia who doesn't understand the prison thing in the US. Is it essentially modern slavery? They choose non-white demographics, send them to prison for minor offences, and use the for cheap/free labour. Is this right?

Yes. Pretty much exactly that.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#287

Post by ckocagil »

iamthirsty wrote: post #270
pasiaj wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the Nordics employ this "stupidest idea ever" and outcomes are definitely better than in the US.

Well, things like more lienient drug laws, harsher gun control, and social welfare usually keep people out of prison or from re-offending when they get out. Outcomes are better there because, truthfully, life is better there.

Sure, those help, but there is a lot more to the idea.

Most prisons are places where the word "criminal" is imprinted on your soul. You live as a criminal and learn from criminals. Or you're isolated which damages your mental health. If you have children, they normalize the idea of being a criminal. You lose your friends and colleagues (your "support network") so when you get out, where else do you go other than crime?

The idea behind Norway's incarceration system is simple. You deprive the person of their freedom, then simulate real life in a controlled environment. You teach them skills. You teach them how to socialize. You do everything to make sure that the criminal learns how to live a normal life.

So why don't other countries implement this system? Two reasons, both of which have to do with politics:

1- Politicians who act "tough on crime" are applauded (as if that will make the streets safer).

2- You produce cheap products and compete with the cheap labor of the third world. Why destroy a system that can produce a lot on the cheap (while banning the import of products of prison labor)?

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#288

Post by ConfSibi »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

>"Hundreds of thousands of prisoners are also employed in jobs outside and inside the prisons, most commonly doing work to maintain the prisons."

They're mostly working just to keep from being bored while serving their sentences. The work is voluntary.

It does not amount to anything close to slavery or forced labor.

Of course many do benefit from work, which is why many of them volunteer... It's not "paternalistic" at all to recognize that.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#290

Post by makecheck »

jlawson wrote: post #257
makecheck wrote: post #41

I never understood the idea of paying prisoners absurdly little “because prison”. Why, because they’re not paying rent? And there’s no way they will find a job on Day 1 after release, meaning they essentially have not enough money while in prison, no way to save money, and poverty at release. Given that, they’ll probably be forced to steal to survive after release and...end up back in prison. It’s inhumane garbage, a…

>they’ll probably be forced to steal to survive after release Given the welfare system and what I've seen of crime stats, my impression is that crimes that could be described as "stealing to survive" are nearly non-existent. Even mentally ill homeless people rarely "steal to survive". The soup kitchen, subsidized apartment and welfare cheque are a lot easier. And anyway, how many times do you need to shoplift bread f…

A factor in punishment is “repeat offender”, and these people were already in prison so any new crime looks bad from the start, regardless of how petty it may be.
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