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China Invests Big in Clean and Cheap Energy from Thorium

thoriumenergyworld.com

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Re: China Invests Big in Clean and Cheap Energy from Thorium

#11

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

yazr wrote: post #9
adventured wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gates has put a lot of money into TerraPower to develop their traveling wave reactor tech: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TerraPower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_wave_reactor And routinely works eg with China: [Nov 2017] "Bill Gates' nuclear firm TerraPower and the China National Nuclear Corporation have signed an agreement to develop a world-first nuclear reactor, using other nuclear reactors' waste" https…

TeraPower is a clever attempt at a fast reactor using uranium/plutonium fuel. We have had various fast reactors (commercial and research) since the 70s. IIRC they tend to be very twitchy, and have proliferation issues. Thorium reactors, a.k.a LFTR, a.k.a. "hope-ium" are still very much on the drawing board. They have some nice properties (stability, safer, liquid based). p.s. I am pro renewable. Nuclear will comeback…

Can anybody provide any real-world examples of proliferation issues from nuclear material?

Re: China Invests Big in Clean and Cheap Energy from Thorium

#12

Post by FlipperBucket »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #11
yazr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TeraPower is a clever attempt at a fast reactor using uranium/plutonium fuel. We have had various fast reactors (commercial and research) since the 70s. IIRC they tend to be very twitchy, and have proliferation issues. Thorium reactors, a.k.a LFTR, a.k.a. "hope-ium" are still very much on the drawing board. They have some nice properties (stability, safer, liquid based). p.s. I am pro renewable. Nuclear will comeback…

Can anybody provide any real-world examples of proliferation issues from nuclear material?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_proliferation ? Thorium/breeder reactors don't work for large booms, but would be fine for small booms and dirty bombs.

Re: China Invests Big in Clean and Cheap Energy from Thorium

#14

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

FlipperBucket wrote: post #12
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anybody provide any real-world examples of proliferation issues from nuclear material?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_proliferation ? Thorium/breeder reactors don't work for large booms, but would be fine for small booms and dirty bombs.

What I mean to say is:

Consider that the world's first commercial nuclear power station, Calder Hall at Windscale, England, was opened in 1956¹, has there ever been a nuclear material used as a weapon other than the obvious two and conventional depleted uranium armour piercing projectiles?

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power#Early_years

Re: China Invests Big in Clean and Cheap Energy from Thorium

#15

Post by gnusci »

philipkglass wrote: post #10

AFAICT this article offers no dates, no numbers, and no primary sources. China did announce a thorium research program back in 2011, and continues to publish research, but I don't see any notable recent developments reported on other sites. The IAEA does not currently list any reactors matching this description in operation or under construction in China: https://pris.iaea.org/pris/CountryStatistics/CountryDetails...…

Well, it seems if a MSR will be built, it will be in China

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602051/fail-safe-nuclear-...

Re: China Invests Big in Clean and Cheap Energy from Thorium

#17

Post by ridgeguy »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #11
yazr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TeraPower is a clever attempt at a fast reactor using uranium/plutonium fuel. We have had various fast reactors (commercial and research) since the 70s. IIRC they tend to be very twitchy, and have proliferation issues. Thorium reactors, a.k.a LFTR, a.k.a. "hope-ium" are still very much on the drawing board. They have some nice properties (stability, safer, liquid based). p.s. I am pro renewable. Nuclear will comeback…

Can anybody provide any real-world examples of proliferation issues from nuclear material?

Speaking only about U233, produced in the thorium fuel cycle: it's been used in composite fission cores in several tests by USA and (then-) USSR. There may have been one small test of an unmixed U233 device by India. [1]

So maybe U233 could be used to make a weapon. I don't know whether that possibility makes it a big proliferation risk or not.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium-233

Re: China Invests Big in Clean and Cheap Energy from Thorium

#18

Post by femto »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #11
yazr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TeraPower is a clever attempt at a fast reactor using uranium/plutonium fuel. We have had various fast reactors (commercial and research) since the 70s. IIRC they tend to be very twitchy, and have proliferation issues. Thorium reactors, a.k.a LFTR, a.k.a. "hope-ium" are still very much on the drawing board. They have some nice properties (stability, safer, liquid based). p.s. I am pro renewable. Nuclear will comeback…

Can anybody provide any real-world examples of proliferation issues from nuclear material?

Australia's export of uranium to India.

India has made an explicit decision not to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty (NPT). As a member of the Nuclear Suppliers Group, Australia is supposed to export only to countries that have signed the NPT. An exemption has been granted to India. This means India is receiving uranium from Australia, but its facilities are not subject to the full range of inspections required under the NPT. It's reasonable to assume that India will go as far as it can in its role as a non-signatory to the NPT.

Essentially India said "trust us", and Australia said "show us the money."

Re: China Invests Big in Clean and Cheap Energy from Thorium

#19

Post by jrumbut »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #14
FlipperBucket wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_proliferation ? Thorium/breeder reactors don't work for large booms, but would be fine for small booms and dirty bombs.

What I mean to say is: Consider that the world's first commercial nuclear power station, Calder Hall at Windscale, England, was opened in 1956 ¹, has there ever been a nuclear material used as a weapon other than the obvious two and conventional depleted uranium armour piercing projectiles? 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power#Early_years

That didn't happen by accident, but was the result of caution (and probably lowish number of attempts).

I would be curious to hear how/if thorium presents a qualitatively different proliferation problem.

Re: China Invests Big in Clean and Cheap Energy from Thorium

#20

Post by beefman »

femto wrote: post #18
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anybody provide any real-world examples of proliferation issues from nuclear material?

Australia's export of uranium to India. India has made an explicit decision not to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty (NPT). As a member of the Nuclear Suppliers Group, Australia is supposed to export only to countries that have signed the NPT. An exemption has been granted to India. This means India is receiving uranium from Australia, but its facilities are not subject to the full range of inspections requir…

India has been a nuclear power since 1974.
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