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National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

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Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#271

Post by fipple »

pasiaj wrote: post #250
WtfRuSerious wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to use a alt account for this ( for obvious reasons )... I disagree with this sentiment, I was ( some 20 years ago ) incarcerated for drug dealing. I broke the law ( much more than I was caught and prosecuted for btw... ) and I deserved what I got, probably more. For the record, being in prison sucks... it's SUPPOSED to suck, it's supposed to make you regret what you did to get put in there and actively loo…

Well, the Nordics employ this "stupidest idea ever" and outcomes are definitely better than in the US.

There are many differences between American and Nordic societies.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#272

Post by jdavis703 »

jlawson wrote: post #257
makecheck wrote: post #41

I never understood the idea of paying prisoners absurdly little “because prison”. Why, because they’re not paying rent? And there’s no way they will find a job on Day 1 after release, meaning they essentially have not enough money while in prison, no way to save money, and poverty at release. Given that, they’ll probably be forced to steal to survive after release and...end up back in prison. It’s inhumane garbage, a…

>they’ll probably be forced to steal to survive after release Given the welfare system and what I've seen of crime stats, my impression is that crimes that could be described as "stealing to survive" are nearly non-existent. Even mentally ill homeless people rarely "steal to survive". The soup kitchen, subsidized apartment and welfare cheque are a lot easier. And anyway, how many times do you need to shoplift bread f…

I've had "low value" things stolen from me like tarps, tents and food (and yes, I realize I'm dumb for not learning to lock these things up the first time they were stolen). While it may have been vandals, I have a strong feeling it was people steeling to survive.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#273

Post by fipple »

thatjsguy wrote: post #221
pm90 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right... and who will decide that? Prison Wardens aren't exactly known to be fair arbiters of such things. Apologies, I don't mean to come off as pessimistic. But its clear to me that prison for most folks meant a place for really bad people so nobody in regular society gives a shit for the plight of prisoners and over time it has created a system where its hard to introduce any meaningful reform.

We the People? This is why voting is important, but I’m afraid that even if everyone participated, most people still condone treating prisoners like crap. “Othering” really helps justify it in people’s minds: “oh, it’s fine to treat them poorly because they’re monsters, and everyone knows only Bad People go to prison”. Never mind that a lot of prisons are stuffed full of nonviolent drug offenders whose only crime was…

I’d rather get the low level druggies out of jail and then treat prisoners like shit. Murderers, rapists, and thugs deserve to be brutalized.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#274

Post by tyingq »

a-fried-egg wrote: post #265
WtfRuSerious wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to use a alt account for this ( for obvious reasons )... I disagree with this sentiment, I was ( some 20 years ago ) incarcerated for drug dealing. I broke the law ( much more than I was caught and prosecuted for btw... ) and I deserved what I got, probably more. For the record, being in prison sucks... it's SUPPOSED to suck, it's supposed to make you regret what you did to get put in there and actively loo…

I agree. Prison is supposed to suck.

The "suck" might please puritanical values. However, it doesn't encourage inmates to get on a better path. It just churns out bitter unemployable people with high rates of recidivism.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#275

Post by fipple »

microcolonel wrote: post #249
fipple wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Child rapists shouldn’t ever be let out of jail, so it’s irrelevant what happens to them there.

> Child rapists shouldn’t ever be let out of jail Possibly unfortunately (though it's not that simple, as prosecutors, being human, still err), the legislature disagrees with you. With personal experience in a proceeding of a charge like this, I assure you child rapists are usually let out of jail before murderers.

Murders should get the needle, child rapists a life sentence.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#277

Post by gremlinsinc »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #10

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

My biggest beef...is we're worried about losing jobs to Mexicans, but allow slavery here in America...I bet a LOT of slaves..err prisoners have stolen jobs from so-called 'free-loading' mexicans who stole them from Americans....or stole them directly from Americans...

Why isn't the 'right' as upset about this as they are illegal immigrants?

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#278

Post by gremlinsinc »

WtfRuSerious wrote: post #206
api_or_ipa wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're totally right. What better way to show inmates the virtue of living an upright life than to treat them just like real people. If you pay them 85c/hr they'll resent The Man even harder and see a life of crime as the only way they'll ever succeed. Pay them for their hardwork and they'll learn they can succeed in life by hardwork, determination and honesty, all virtues that prison _should_ be about instilling.

I'm going to use a alt account for this ( for obvious reasons )... I disagree with this sentiment, I was ( some 20 years ago ) incarcerated for drug dealing. I broke the law ( much more than I was caught and prosecuted for btw... ) and I deserved what I got, probably more. For the record, being in prison sucks... it's SUPPOSED to suck, it's supposed to make you regret what you did to get put in there and actively loo…

I'm sure ALL of your fellow inmates are now stellar citizens with not one in recidivism. Not one back where they started, or leading a life of crime still... because our criminal justice system has a 100% success rate at rehabilitation.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#279

Post by jancsika »

> 1. Immediate improvements to the conditions of prisons and prison policies that recognize the humanity of imprisoned men and women.

This probably ought to include something like the following: "...including an immediate ban on solitary confinement as a disciplinary measure."

Otherwise we will have a multi-decade "conversation" about whether "time in the hole" actually constitutes torture.

Remember, this is the country that brought you "enhanced interrogation techniques" and marijuana as a schedule I controlled substance.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#280

Post by vanattab »

bbarn wrote: post #24
AcerbicZero wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only time I heard anyone being sentenced to "hard labor" was in the military, so it seems like if you're given incarceration at your sentencing then that shouldn't automatically mean you're being sentenced to work while you're there? The punishment is incarceration, not labor, right? I guess this is an area where I'm exceptionally under-educated, so if you've got any good suggestions for reading on the topic I'd…

It may not be "hard labor" but isn't this what getting sentenced to community service is, in effect? Involuntary labor as a punishment for a crime.

I don't think you can really be forced into community service per se. They basically say the sentence is x time in jail or if you agree we will accept x hours of community service.
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