I thought I'd share how he felt because it wasn't all all what I expected to hear. I expected he'd rip on it and all I heard was good.
National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions
241–250 of 391 posts
Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Arguing that it’s good for them is paternalistic bullshit. Sitting in a cage or a large room with other inmates with nothing productive to do can itself be considered a form of psychological torture, which is precisely what some proponents of prison industry have argued: https://sci-hub.tw/10.2307/1147470
Maybe we should rehabilitate criminals in some fashion that doesn't involve indentured servitude or putting them in cages and reserve the latter only for those who cannot be rehabilitated. Trying to argue that forced labor is more humane is morally bankrupt from the get-go. That it's being made by people with a literal financial incentive to see the system not change only underscores that point.
[0]: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/11/u-s-private-...
Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t disagree but just wanted to say something: The whole point of money was to make it possible for 2+ good actors to do legal (and different) work/goods/services for each other while profiting. Most people who end up in prison were “bad actors” by definition. The system was not benefiting from them. And thus I can’t help thinking that they don’t really deserve any of the system’s monetary medium of exchange.
Except they're not really "bad actors" Most people in prison today are there because of "drug offenses" which usually means they got caught doing drugs themselves (not dealing drugs or being involved in drug induced crimes).
Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because it's part of the day to day upkeep of life in general. You don't get paid for cooking, cleaning, or doing laundry (unless you're a middle class child earning pocket money from your parents). It's just stuff that has to be done.
You also dont get to go to the toilet in, be confined in a small room, barred from using the internet and generally deprived of your freedom in life in general.
Not being paid for things that you're otherwise also not paid for isn't a punishment, that's just normal every day life in general.
Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
out of curiosity, do you think an amendment to that could reach consensus with more awareness? federal prison could be fixed easily with congress and the executive branch, but fixing the patch work of state level would require a constitutional amendment. also, there are a lot of constitutional things - like eugenics programs - that simply aren't practiced anymore anywhere. so awareness and public disfavor can alter t…
That exception literally exists to provide a means to cheap labor... It's not accidental. Notice how many laws disproportionately target black people (always in their enforcement and effect, it would be illegal if it were in the text of the law), like drug prohibition, and you start to see a pattern that looks a whole lot like intent. We abolished slavery but we weren't ready to end white supremacy and our laws refle…
Criminal justice reform has lobbyists against it, and also has a culture that is obsessed with punishment and bloodlust.
I think prisoner wages or the duties of prisoners can be addressed in some capacity, without maintaining a massive slave labor force. The circumstances around wording of the 13th Amendment, and subsequent case law may allow for redress against this outcome.
From the majority opinion in Bailey v. Alabama in 1910
> "The plain intention [of the amendment] was to abolish slavery of whatever name and form and all its badges and incidents; to render impossible any state of bondage; to make labor free, by prohibiting that control by which the personal service of one man is disposed of or coerced for another's benefit, which is the essence of involuntary servitude. While the Amendment was self-executing, so far as its terms were applicable to any existing condition, Congress was authorized to secure its complete enforcement by appropriate legislation."
So I see what the amendment says - prisoners can be slaves - but honestly, it may be as simple as that having never been challenged. Its probably why they are paid 85 cents in some cases, and only a handful of traditionally southern states paying them nothing.
In conclusion: there may not be public support for prisoner slavery, there may not be Congressional or state legislature support for prisoner slavery, and even if it got to the Supreme Court they might just lean on old case law instead of the plain text of the amendment.
Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think they should pay rent and should be paid proper wages, to accelerate reintroduction to society. Don’t do any work? Get the worst cell, with rent written off. Work as a firefighter? Get $30/hour which you can use to get better living conditions and better food in prison.
To each child rapist a pony, to each law abiding productive citizen, a lump of coal. Seems reasonable to me.
Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
To each child rapist a pony, to each law abiding productive citizen, a lump of coal. Seems reasonable to me.
I'll leave a video that might change the way you think about the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxdgPnYyj64
Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions
#248Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
To each child rapist a pony, to each law abiding productive citizen, a lump of coal. Seems reasonable to me.
Child rapists shouldn’t ever be let out of jail, so it’s irrelevant what happens to them there.
Possibly unfortunately (though it's not that simple, as prosecutors, being human, still err), the legislature disagrees with you. With personal experience in a proceeding of a charge like this, I assure you child rapists are usually let out of jail before murderers.
Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're totally right. What better way to show inmates the virtue of living an upright life than to treat them just like real people. If you pay them 85c/hr they'll resent The Man even harder and see a life of crime as the only way they'll ever succeed. Pay them for their hardwork and they'll learn they can succeed in life by hardwork, determination and honesty, all virtues that prison _should_ be about instilling.
I'm going to use a alt account for this ( for obvious reasons )... I disagree with this sentiment, I was ( some 20 years ago ) incarcerated for drug dealing. I broke the law ( much more than I was caught and prosecuted for btw... ) and I deserved what I got, probably more. For the record, being in prison sucks... it's SUPPOSED to suck, it's supposed to make you regret what you did to get put in there and actively loo…